Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Sunday, October 17, 2021, 15:47 (41 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: God evolved our reality, with many stages along the way. We are His end point, and for some strange reason you won 't accept that concept, as Adler and I do.

dhw: But that is not the point at issue, and you know it. Why do you persist in ignoring the vocabulary plus those parts of your theory that you yourself cannot explain? “End point” does not mean one and only goal from the very beginning (see bold above). God, according to your theory, also “evolved” (by which you mean designed) every other reality with many stages along the way, and the vast majority of those realities had no connection with humans.

Splitting our reality into separate parts doesn't work. From the Big Bang on it is one continuous evolutionary process.

dhw: So what was their point if humans were his only goal? (And I'd better add the usual question: if you now think humans plus their food were NOT his only goal, please tell us what other goals you think he may have had?)

'One and only goal' is your twisted form of humans as an endpoint with the only consciousness besides God's.

dhw: You have also agreed that my different explanations make perfect sense, but you reject their logic because they differ from your own illogical theory about God’s purpose and method of fulfilling that purpose!

DAVID: The concept of God rules how one thinks about Him. I reject your individual concept.

dhw: I do not have an “individual” concept. I have offered you alternative theistic concepts which explain the WHOLE of life’s history, and two of these even allow for the specialness of humans and individual design of all species (i.e. experimentation and new ideas), while the third is the proposal of a free-for-all. You admit that all three fit in logically with life’s history. All three allow for a purposeful God who knows what he is doing – though you obviously consider that setting out to learn something new is “namby-pamby”. Your own concept used to be that your God was logical, but now apparently he doesn’t have to be. That seems to be the only way you can defend your theory!

My God is not changed except in your altered version of Him as I view him.. He is highly purposeful, knows exactly what to do and does it. Your so-called purposes make Him weak and not in full control, not sure of Himself by experimenting, i.e., very humanized.

Immunity system complexity
DAVID: Transplant rejection problems must show you our cells know 'same' from foreign.

dhw: There is no disagreement over the fact that our cells recognize what is foreign. The disagreement lies in the fact that you do not accept that such recognition is a sign of cognizance not of automaticity.

DAVID: That cognizance is automatic is what I was taught.

dhw: Then perhaps you should consult your dictionary instead of believing your teacher. Cognizance: 1. knowledge or understanding of something. 2. Take cognizance of something: to understand something and consider it when you take action or make a decision. (Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English). Many definitions even include the word “awareness”. Look it up for yourself.

We are now exchanging a discussion of the meaning of words. The cells automatically know foreign from self. I view cognizance as meaning that.

DAVID: The information for the standard cell production of antibodies is in the genome, and as yet a mystery.
DAVID: The brain entry today shows you how difficult it is to know exactly how any process of controls works. [dhw's bolds]

dhw: If we don’t know how the processes of control work, why do you keep insisting that they are automatic, following some vague programme or instructions from your God? Your constant repetition of “automatic” merely glosses over the fact that recognition of the NEW invader and the production of a NEW antibody require thought, and what is added to the library is not the same as everything else that is already in the library.

DAVID: It doesn't require thought, just automatic recognition of 'foreign' and addition of a standardized addition of killer/modifier proteins. Pure medical school teaching.

dhw: If nobody knows how the processes of control work, how can medical schoolteachers know that recognition of ‘foreign’ invaders and the design of new antibodies are automatic, let alone that they are the product of your God’s preprogramming and instructions? In which monastery did you do your medical training?:-)

My teachers did not discuss the religious meaning of a medical education. Automaticity, not God was taught. ;-) ;-)

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