Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing: cognition (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, October 28, 2021, 15:50 (1120 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Our difference is I accept that God created all reality. Humans are here, therefore He wanted us.

dhw: If you believe he created all reality, then you believe he wanted every single life form that ever existed, and not just humans. How does that come to mean that every single life form that ever existed was “part of the goal of evolving [=specially designing] humans” and their food,

Part of a goal is what you object to. Look at is as a desired endpoint of evolution.

Immunity system complexity

DAVID: Cellular intelligence is your adopted theory. I fully believe cells are not.

I know you do. But you claimed that the theory was outdated, whereas I directed you to loads of websites in which it is still current (see "Theodicy"), and you very kindly reproduced an article last week which explicitly supported it. More dodging.

And I showed you your websites were non-supportive.

Common design

dhw: Your problem is the two gross contradictions at the start of this post. [See below]

DAVID: Continuity of biological processes is the answer.

dhw: As above: all life entails biological processes, but that does not mean all life serves the purpose of fulfilling your God’s alleged single goal of producing humans, and it does not explain how humans can be descended from bacteria if they are descended from life forms which your God created de novo, i.e. without any precursors.

DAVID: Because God created them. Gaps of form disprove Darwin. He never heard of biochemistry.

dhw: So you believe your God created humans in a continuous line from bacteria, but you believe he didn’t because he created them out of a line that began with life forms that had no precursors. And that is explained by the fact that Darwin had never heard of biochemistry. I’m having trouble following your logic.

Life processes are a required first in designs. Body forms are secondary designs. The real continuity is biochemistry. Darwin only knew body form (anatomy). Not confusing.

dhw: But why do you consider autonomous design to be useless and secondhand?

Explained many times. As a designer I've found I do it better myself than instructing others.

DAVID: Same reliance on a misinterpretation of automatic processes in cells. ID and the appearance of intelligence are two sides of the same coin.

dhw: Off you go again, ignoring the difference between automatic implementation of decisions and the so far unexplained, mysterious process which leads to the decisions and which some scientists both past and present attribute to cognitive intelligence. But I agree that direct design by God and direct design by cells are two sides of the same coin. All the more reason why you should not pretend that you know your own 50/50 theory is correct.

DAVID: And remember you have agreed that one of us is wrong.

dhw: And so each of us presents his case. Do you agree that nobody knows how cells reach the decisions which trigger automatic processes to implement those decisions?

I agree we don't have proof. What I see is all the automatic processes produce life automatically, no decision making required.