Let's study ID: giraffe plumbing: cognition (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, November 04, 2021, 07:29 (24 days ago) @ David Turell

Common design

DAVID: Accept it. A connected evolution process happened from bacteria to humans.

dhw: I am perfectly happy to accept it. It is you (see below) who firstly have cast doubt on it with your theory that your God designed new forms that had no precursors, and we humans are descended from them – and therefore not in a "connected" evolutionary process from bacteria. Secondly, of course, you continue to ignore the bolded questions concerning all the life forms and foods that had no connection with humans.

DAVID: I've answered and you refuse to accept my answers. Your tortured view of the Cambrian form gap is laughable, and is answered previously.

What is tortured about it? I have reproduced your own theory: the gaps according to you are caused by your God designing new life forms without precursors, and we are descended from those life forms. Evolution, you tell us, entails changes of form, not changes in the biochemical processes that enable all organisms to live. If all this is so, we are not descended from bacteria but from what were then brand new species without precursors. So if he could start brand new species from scratch, and only wanted to design us plus our food, why bother with the whole great bush? Your answer: No idea. Go and ask God.

dhw: Of course the argument against this is that we ARE descended from bacteria, and the Cambrian gap is not due to God popping in to start a brand new array of forms, but to a lack of fossils and/or the ability of intelligent cells to make major as well as minor jumps in response to changing conditions.

DAVID: Lack of fossils is a weak reed. Constant digging in china enhances the gap. Intelligent cells don't speciate is my view in all discussions.

I know you believe in a 3.8-billion-year-old programme for every innovation and decision, or divine dabbling for each one. Some scientists disagree with you, but nobody knows the truth. That’s why we keep discussing which theories seem most feasible.

The gaps just get bigger
DAVID: Quoting dhw and his feeble excuse: dhw:" No known precursors, possibly explained by lack of fossils: from the last entry in this thread, Here's an answer:

DAVID: Even Gould described the gaps and invented punctuated equilibrium to excuse it. Punc-inc isn't heard from any more. And as they dig in the Edicaran layer in China, the Cambrian gap grows worse. Gaps do require miracles, don't they?

The gaps remain the same. Punctuated equilibrium simply means that there are long periods of stasis, punctuated by bursts of creativity. The theory, as far as I know, does not explain the process of innovation. Quite apart from the fact that we are frequently being alerted to new fossil discoveries (very often relating to hominins and homos, which of course are far more recent than the Cambrian), you and the authors have paid no attention whatever to the theory that intelligent cells might be responsible for the major jumps as well as minor adaptations. The time scale then becomes irrelevant – as it would be if your God did a dabble.

I have transferred David v Dawkins to "Miscellany", as it is not relevant to ID.

Fungus controls male flies
QUOTE: But meanwhile, the researchers say they are astonished by the fungus’ ability to manipulate its host. “I’m really impressed and amazed by the extent of the adaptation it shows,” de Fine Licht says.

So am I. It seems to support the theory that all life forms are possessed of some form of intelligence.

AVID: It is in the same class as fungus control of ants, described here before. Same old question: how chance evolution achieves this complex system?

I’m very much inclined to agree with you. The whole process suggests that there is cellular intelligence at work. I’m not sure why your God would specifically want to provide the first living cells with a programme for fungi to control male flies, or why he would pop in to give the fungi instructions – especially since his only goal was apparently to design humans and their food - but rest assured, I do not expect an answer.

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