David's theory of evolution: Stephen Talbott's view III (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, July 01, 2020, 17:38 (1604 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Intelligent design always implies a designer exists for direct design.

dhw: But it does not imply that a designer directly designed every species and natural wonder. A designer could also have designed a mechanism whereby organisms autonomously did their own designing, and that is what Talbott is advocating and what you refuse even to consider.

DAVID: I've said Talbott is your mirror image. You've just illustrated it. IDer's propose direct design.

dhw: The fact that Talbott and I think alike and that IDers propose direct design is no reason to reject the (theistic) theory that your God designed a mechanism enabling organisms to do their own designing. That is also “intelligent design”!

DAVID: We IDer's see the metaphorical wall as yours.

dhw: Then you have completely misunderstood Talbott (and me). Look at this quote:

QUOTE: This in no way conflicts with any convictions you may hold regarding a transcendent creative power sustaining the universe. It is merely to say that what we observe on earth is a power of life immanent in the organisms around us. Presumably you believe not only in the transcendence, but also in the immanence of the creative power.(dhw’s bold)

dhw: Just like Darwin, Talbott is telling you that his theory does not exclude God! There is no wall – he remains open-minded. Walls are created by those who have fixed beliefs.

DAVID: All agreed. You and Talbott are twins. It still revolve about chance or design and both of you stay neutral on the choice. ID folks and I don't.

dhw: And so you continue to miss the point. It is not a question of chance v. design! It is a question of what drives evolution. From the theist’s point of view: did God directly create every life form, econiche, natural wonder etc. – as you claim – or did he create an autonomous mechanism to do its own designing? Chance doesn’t come into it. This is a theistic debate between creationism (direct design) and evolution (but not Darwin’s version, because intelligent design replaces random mutations) as your God’s method of achieving whatever may have been his purpose.

I've missed nothing. You have neatly removed the issue of chance by putting evolutionary advancements totally into God's hands, whether He directly designs everything or puts in an auto-design in some or all of the new evolutionary advances. I'm happy that, at least, chance and Darwin's method of evolution are gone.