David's theory of evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Monday, September 30, 2019, 18:51 (391 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I am combining quotes from different threads

David’s theory of evolution is that his God is in total control, and H. sapiens was his one and only goal; God decided to take 3.X billion years before starting to fulfil his goal, therefore he had to specially design all the other life forms in order to cover the time involved. David has no idea why God chose this method of fulfilling his one and only goal. He denies that this is his theory, and so I have quoted his own words: “He knew those designs were required interim goals to establish the necessary food supply to cover the time he knew he had decided to take.” He agrees that this is his theory (“Of course.”)

dhw: And let us not forget that you have no idea why he decided to “evolve humans over time” as described in your theory.

DAVID: Same Theory: God, the Creator, created evolution as His choice of life's creation. Obvious logical result of accepting God as Creator.

dhw: If God exists, then for those of us who believe in evolution, clearly evolution was his chosen means of achieving his purpose. The dispute is over your choice of God's possible purpose and of the possible means of fulfilling that purpose. Since the above theory makes no sense even to you, I have offered alternative explanations of purpose and method. For instance, if he really did specially design us humans with our very special level of consciousness, it may have been an idea that occurred to him only after 3.X billion years, or if he wanted us from the very beginning, he may have spent 3.X billion years experimenting to find a way of achieving this purpose.

DAVID: Experimentation strongly implies a humanized God. God knows what He is doing, and makes His own clear Choices.

dhw: Of course God, if he exists, would make his own choices, but an experimenting scientist or inventor “knows what he is doing” or his experiments will have no chance of success! “Humanizing” is your desperate attempt to escape from the illogicality of your theory, but you have admitted that “He very well could think like us, but it is only a guess, as your suppositions about His thoughts are.” As indeed are your own. If he “very well could think like us”, a “humanizing” hypothesis is clearly just as likely to be true as a hypothesis based on the belief that he does not think like us. And so you are left with one last straw to clutch at: your theory is logical provided we jettison human logic:

DAVID: The history of creation tells us how God the Creator did it. Nothing illogical required if one does not apply human reasoning to the actual history.
DAVID: Yyou try to make God logical to fit your human thinking, It doesn't work.

dhw: Let us remember that your theory as summarized above is your personal interpretation of your God’s purpose and method. In contrast to my alternatives, apparently your theory is perfectly logical provided we do not use human logic to try and understand it. May I humbly suggest that if God “very well could think like us”, theories which ARE logical by human reasoning are more likely to be true than a theory which you as a human find illogical and which is based on the assumption that God does NOT think like us.

Rather than go through your garbled version of what I think and how I think, by spotting your distortions above and locally answering each one, I am answering in total here my series of logical points that lead to my conclusions:

First of all is the overwhelming evidence that God prefers to evolve, as in the history of the universe from the Big Bang to now, the evolving surface of the Earth and the start of life and its interlocking influence of the properties of the Earth. I view God as in charge starting his creation 13.78 byo and arriving at current humans with their big brained consciousness about 300,000 years ago. The stresses from environment were not severe enough to require humans to appear, as our closest relatives, the apes prove. That removes any Darwin theory from consideration as environmental tresses driving evolution. God, as designer, does the work. As Adler points out, consciousness is the obvious proof God exists, my shorthand for his 300+/- page book. It is obvious God took His own sweet time. He has no need to be swift, as you constantly wish with your illogical human thinking.

I simply look at history to tell me what God decided to do. He has His own reasons for evolving rather than direct creation as in Genesis. And Genesis word 'day' is a misinterpretation of the Hebrew word 'Yom', which really is any interval in time. You view Him from an impatient human view, of why not be quick? History says He wasn't.

Your problem is you cannot accept God as the Designer/creator. It is your problem, not mine, since you do not wish to follow my line of reasoning and arrive at what you call another mystery to answer the questions. I view the need for a designer as undeniable and irrefutable. God must exist to explain the designed complexity of living organisms. Not by chance. And design is what keeps you agnostic, as you admit. So how do you explain the obvious design? Your position doesn't, as you present a garbled humanized view of God in your attempt to approach Him. Your problem, not mine, noting that I started out as agnostic, but with an open mind in studying the design evidence.

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