David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, April 19, 2020, 17:46 (186 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: If you are incapable of defending your own image of God’s nature, purpose and method in a theory which you tell me Adler does not even deal with, then it’s no use quoting Adler.

DAVID: I guess no teacher ever taught you anything. When I decided to investigate theism, I knew I had to be taught how to do it. Adler, St. Thomas, Ed Feser and others. What did you do?

This is a silly diversion from the illogicality of your theory of evolution! But if you really want to know, at synagogue I was taught to swallow the OT, at school I was taught to swallow the NT, in later discussions with a particular rabbi and a particular Methodist minister I was taught very different ways of investigating theism, and I have no doubt that imams and Buddhists and process theologians and deists and pantheists and panentheists and atheists and fellow agnostics (many discussions with both!) will all try to teach me how to investigate theism. Now would you please focus on the arguments.

dhw: You wrote that God may still be evolving the universe, and I said it was good to hear that humans may not be the endpoint after all.

DAVID: Wrong conclusion. I said universe not humans.

dhw: Sorry, but I thought you thought your God’s sole purpose in creating the universe was to create humans. Please tell us what other purpose you think God may have had in creating the universe.

DAVID: I don't know. Do you? We'll have to wait and see, but our lives won't allow it.

Shame, eh? But it’s still good to hear that humans may not be the endpoint after all.

DAVID: I'm sure God is watching, at His own level of personal thought. ("Cellular controls of protein paths", 6th March @ 16.56)

dhw: Yep, you’re sure your hidden God is watching, but you ridicule the idea that he created life so that he could watch it.

DAVID: A simple human purpose is all you can imagine.

I do wish you would tell us what other purposes you imagine, but in any case you’re still left with your own certainty that he’s watching.

Dhw: […]I asked if you rejected Deism, and you replied: “To be honest, yes. I assume if he did all that creating He’d like to follow the results and as I view God as supremely purposeful, it is most likely he is still actively interested in what he produced. To do it and leave seems odd.” I’m not sure that Deists specify that he has left, but I’m happy with your “follow the results” and “actively interested”. Although he wouldn’t have to follow the results if he knew them already.

DAVID: You've forgotten we have free will and can do the unexpected. even for God.

I never forget that. In fact I keep reminding you of it, since it illustrates God’s deliberate sacrifice of control, and therefore deliberate desire to create the unexpected. There is no reason, therefore, to assume that the same desire did not influence his method of evolutionary creation (a free-for-all that constantly produced the unexpected – though I always add that he still had the option to dabble.)


DAVID: The importance of econiches (ecosystems) is again demonstrated. The current bush of life is required and anticipated by God as He evolved life on Earth.

dhw: No one could possibly say that econiches are not important for every single form of life that ever existed, including our own. How this proves that your God had to directly design 3.X billion years’ worth of extinct econiches in order to directly design the current bush of life remains the question which you have “no idea” how to answer.

DAVID: Again the usual misinterpretation, as you ignore the reasoning from current facts: I don't know God's reasons before deciding to evolve humans over time. It is easy to guess He foresaw that once we arrived with our special giant brain, we would become a swarm all over the Earth and required a huge well-organized bush of econiches to give us the enormous food supply we needed. (dhw’s bold)

But that’s what according to you he directly created. And the fact that you don’t know why he directly created the vast number of extinct life forms and econiches before he fulfilled his one and only purpose by directly created humans and their econiches is the whole problem with your theory!

DAVID: Perhaps He has the power to create all of it at once, but in no situation has He done that. Why do I have to remind you He evolved the universe, the Earth, and us? His patterns are obvious if you open your mind and look.

You don’t have to remind me. We have dealt with it over and over again. I am not questioning that the evolution of universe, Earth, and the WHOLE of life took place. Why have you left out the WHOLE of life. It is the bold above that makes no sense even to you.

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