David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, April 04, 2020, 20:25 (1692 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: But it makes no sense to claim that for 3.X billion years, millions of non-human econiches, feeding species of which 99% are extinct, were specially designed just to cover the time until your all-powerful God, who can do whatever he wants however and whenever he wants, could specially design the only species he wanted to design.

"Just to cover the time" is the same old quote out of context when, as I remember, I was giving you possible reasons for the time it took. My consistent take on it is that God chose to evolve over time. and I keep repeating God chooses to evolve each stage:

DAVID: I cannot know God's reasons for using evolution but it is all of a pattern, as you force me to repeat: created universe, evolved it; created the Earth, evolved it; Created life and evolved it.

dhw: You have left out the one part of your theory which is at the root of this discussion! I am not challenging the use of evolution! I am challenging your interpretation of evolution! Yes, if God exists, he created the universe etc.; yes he is responsible for evolution; yes, econiches provide food for all organisms; yes, humans are unique. But no, for the thousandth time, it does not make sense to claim...See bold above.

Same use of a twisted old quote I do not support/believe as you present it.

DAVID: What I just wrote before is I assume He is logical like we are, but that doesn't allow me to know His reasons for choice of method. His patterns tell me He prefers to evolve each creation, rather than direct creation, that you keep wondering about.

dhw: I would also imagine that he is logical as we are. That is why I offer you different explanations of evolution, all of which you agree are logical, and therefore show him to be “logical like we are” and to have thought patterns similar to ours. But you have no idea what logic could underlie your own theory! As regards “direct creation” see later.

DAVID: The Cambrian was a rapid expansion of new forms. So was the human. I assume both were a massive dabble.

dhw: In defence of your own theory, you wrote: “His patterns tell me he prefers to evolve each creation, rather than direct creation.” How can a dabble not be direct creation? According to you, the new Cambrian species – all apparently absolutely necessary for the production of H. sapiens - did not even have common ancestors! And you keep having him dabbling (= directly changing) human anatomy as well as expanding brains.

Of course I think God ran/runs evolution. My two earlier thoughts are still the same: preplanning and preprogramming and dabbling along the way are probably ways God did it. But if He wanted a course change He dabbled. Of course dabbling (the bold above) is direct creation; what else can it be? As for the Cambrian/ human explosion comparison, in a definite sense our brain does not have a real ancestor, Adler's point. Your constant implied demand for direct creation of humans is what raised my objection to it.

DAVID: Another new find that supports the idea of a hominin/homo evolutionary explosion.

dhw: Indeed, and the bigger the explosion, the more difficult it is to believe that your all-powerful God started out wanting only one species (apart from enough other life forms to provide H. sapiens with food). The explosion supports the idea of different species evolving to cope with different environments. Your theory once again raises the question of if or why your God created different environments.

DAVID: The different species in different environments gave sapiens all the attributes it need as a final product. I've been over all is before, remember?
The Earth He created had many different environments in different areas and at different times in the history of the Earth. […]

dhw: Yes, we’ve been over this before, but the muddle continues. We know the Earth has many different environments, but you still won’t commit yourself to saying whether he deliberately created them all – local as well as global – or left that part of his plan to chance. He wants one species, has the power to create it any way he wants but, after 3.X billion years’ worth of non-human life forms and econiches, he then dabbles lots of non-sapiens so that they can contribute bits and pieces before he finally dabbles us. So instead of direct creation of the species, you have direct creation of bits of the species (including each successive brain expansion) until he directly creates the only species he wants. No wonder you say we shouldn’t look for your God’s reasons.

Again, your view of God is that He did not use human reasoning to decide how to evolve. Do you read what I write? God evolved the Earth to prepare for a survivable evolution of life with the proper-sized bush. I accept what God did as shown by the historical events. It is you who want to dig in and ascertain, somehow, God's exact reasoning for all he did and why He did it. Note religions will give you all the answers you want, all from human reasoning. I carefully avoid that approach. why don't you? I am not a fideist. My faith comes after I studied the science and other opinions. Never a rote regurgitation from religious teaching. I am convinced there must be a designer. And you recognize design, and then full stop.