David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, November 10, 2019, 20:08 (1838 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Whale gaps are huge, and swift adaptations are still not speciation. You are grasping at straws.

dhw: You keep ignoring the point that adaptation, whether fast or slow (whale adaptations/innovations were in slow stages) illustrates the fact that organisms change by RESPONDING to changing conditions, not in advance of them, and my proposal is that the same mechanism may be responsible for major changes as well as minor.

Whale adaptations were huge. You cannot downsize them. Look at the series of major changes to refresh your memory. Gould's concept of gaps cannot be ignored. He was a semi-honest Darwinist, shown by the invention of punc-inc, never proven.

dhw: Of course if he exists he does what he wants to, and I cannot possibly forget that you have no idea why he would have chosen to delay “evolving” H. sapiens, his sole purpose, for 3.X billion years, and that [..] he therefore had to design every non-human life form, lifestyle etc. in order to cover the time he had decided to take.

DAVID: But we do not know if God thinks like you do. All supposition. History presents the facts.

dhw: Not supposition, but one of several possibilities, all of which are humanly logical, whereas your own fixed belief, in your words, is only logical “if we do not apply human logic to the facts of history”!

History supplies the facts, which can be logically analyzed. You and I differ, since I say that the history is the result of God's actions. You agree that can be true if God is in change and then you deny it, which is your right because you won't accept as God is charge. It is your problem, not mine.

DAVID: Hybridization is an accepted form of evolution.
dhw: Of course it is. Only you happened to create a pretty silly form of it: apes with human legs mated with ape-legged apes to produce early hominins! I’d have thought apes with human legs were the hominin ancestors, whereas apes with ape legs would not contribute anything new at all to the human lineage.

DAVID: Silly. Remember something has to be the in between model!

Of course it does. So how can the offspring of human-legged apes and ordinary apes provide anything more “in between” than apes with human legs?

DAVID: Who or what designed the new forms or parts? A designing mind is required.

dhw: […] you should have understood by now that in my hypothesis the new body abilities and forms are designed by the cell communities, and I accept the possibility that the ability to do this designing may have been given to them by your God – but for reasons I cannot fathom, you refuse to accept the possibility that your God might have designed the mechanism to give them this ability.

DAVID: I've accepted it in the past as an inventive mechanism from God with guidelines. You don't like guidelines as it gives your version of God too much control. Your agnosticism is showing up as usual.

dhw: Your guidelines are either 3.8-billion-year-old programmes or private lessons in how to do whatever is to be done. My proposal (theistic version) is that your God gave cells the autonomous ability to do their own designing. Nothing whatsoever to do with my agnosticism, but everything to do with a logical explanation for the great higgledy-piggledy bush of evolution, which suggests anything but the single purpose and method you impose on your God, which you admit requires jettisoning all human reasoning.

Your usual mantra. The bush is required to supply energy for life to evolve over 3.8 billion years as history shows. Have you forgotten everyone has to eat regularly? No you haven't. You choose to ignore it. God in charge got to his purpose by creating the evolution of life over the time history says it took. Again you humanize God whom you think shouldn't have been so patient. Real history is not illogical.