David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, May 05, 2020, 19:07 (1661 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Once set in motion some events simply evolve, others are designed.

dhw: I'm delighted that instead of the hands-on design of everything, you now believe that only some are designed while others evolve. Clearly, then, “evolve” means he didn’t directly design them. And so in principle, he could have designed a mechanism that allowed life forms simply to evolve (as opposed to his specially designing them), while other events were designed (e.g. exterminations). I don’t ask you to believe it – only to acknowledge that it is a “reasonable” alternative to preprogramming and dabbling every form of life. And to forestall another of your objections, it is one of several alternatives that are no more and less the product of human reasoning than your own.

DAVID: The bold is your usual attempt to make God lessor of a power than He is. In evolving the Earth, such things as continent formation and movement may have been set in motion and proceeded on its own. That may also include certain climate changes with ice ages, ocean chemistries, etc. That does not include your attempt to have life evolve itself. Twisting what you read as usual.

dhw: There is no twisting. You have told us that “some events simply evolve, others are designed”. How do you know which is which? Whatever events were not designed obviously lessen the degree of your God’s control, but not necessarily his power. Firstly, you have no more idea than I have of what power “He is”! Secondly, if he actually CHOOSES to create a mechanism whereby life evolves of its own accord (with the option of dabbling), how can this lessen his power? Does deliberately giving free rein to humans (and nasty viruses) lessen his power?

My view is God steers the entire direction of evolution and watches over every branch of life. You resurrected an unfettered IM and I still insist it must have God's guidelines.

DAVID: My discussion of food is fully logical. Have you forgotten the current size of the human population, or conveniently ignoring it? The huge bush supplies the food. God foresaw the need at this time. Remember I start with the conclusion God's main purpose was the creation of sapiens. I know you don't, but that is not my problem, as hou flounder around trying to understand a God we you do not accept. Your theist hat is very askew.

dhw: Once again you focus solely on the bush required for humans, and conveniently forget the 3.X billion years of extinct non-human life forms and bushes that preceded humanity. Your attempt to make the current food bush into an explanation for all the dead food bushes does not alter by one iota the fact that you have no idea why he would have chosen this method of fulfilling his purpose (H. sapiens). If you want to be “fully logical”, this can only mean that you’ve got either the purpose or the method “askew”.

Nothing is askew except your refusal to use logic about God's use/control of evolution. And I forget nothing. The history of evolution tells us exactly what happened. Start with bacteria and end up with humans. Earlier forms are built upon to create new advances. Species come and go in the process. Earth has a finite capacity for hosting life. All early forms must go to make room for future forms. Note the bold. Do you really understand the meaning of the word 'fact'? For me it is a 'fact' His purpose was sapiens. As for method, it is a fact that He chose to use evolution, because that is what happened. No one, especially you, cannot know His reasons for the way He accomplished His purpose. But to remind you, since you can't seem to remember my argument that God uses evolution for all He does: the universe started in an early simple form and then evolved; the Earth was a barren rock and evolved to allow life; life was started in more simple forms and then evolved to very complex forms.

DAVID (under “Bacteria create soil”): I've described the Earth as being evolved by God's creations in life. Starting with bacteria as God's workhorses, our Earth beautifully supports all sorts of life in a vast necessary bush of life. Analyzed this way God's methods for His purposes are easy to understand.

dhw: “Necessary” for what? How many purposes are you referring to? Previously it was only sapiens. Why were 3.X billion years’ worth of dead species and bushes necessary for the direct design of H. sapiens? Here’s an alternative for you: our Earth beautifully supports all sorts of life in a vast and ever changing bush of life, including humans. So maybe your God’s purpose was to create all sorts of life in a vast and ever changing bush of life, including humans.

Of course you have distorted an analysis of what God did, by denigrating his full intentions and overall control of purposes. Of course He knew the " vast and ever changing bush of life" was necessary to produce. You have forgotten it was all just for spectacle as you have invented a humanized God, or could you possibly changed your view, and accept that God is not human??