David's theory of evolution: James A. Shapiro's view (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Sunday, January 26, 2020, 19:38 (244 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: QUOTE: “This is a radical departure from development as a preprogrammed set of rules that run like clockwork,says Thomas Zwaka, a stem-cell biologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

DAVID: We know organisms reproduce exact copies unless there are major mutations. It may look chaotic in the new discoveries because it surprises the Darwinian folks, and yet really be preprogrammed to a large degree.

dhw: I’d have thought you would be more surprised than anyone, since you constantly tell us how your God preprogrammed it all to work automatically, like clockwork (the exact opposite of what our stem-cell biologist has just told us)...But I do like your “large degree”.

DAVID: I'm not surprised if God creates a system that looks chaotic to Darwinists, but works purposefully. Working as if chaotic, but succeeding to fulfill a purpose sure looks like it is designed. Scientists are now noting the use of force to allow groups of dividing cells to push each other around and finally into the proper planned structure.

dhw: You drew attention to this article, but ignored the comment I have bolded. Of course we know the system works. Now do please tell us (see below) which small degree of the system you think is not preprogrammed.

I really did answer.


dhw: It is the small degree that interests me. For instance, how did the systems originate in the first place (you say preprogrammed or dabbled by God, Shapiro says “natural genetic engineering”), and how do they put themselves right when the smooth automaticity goes wrong? God reprogrammes or dabbles them again, or autonomous intelligence again comes into play?

Obvious: The germ cells may have some epigenetic ability to make minor modifications as necessary.

DAVID:See the following entry next re' sperm DNA controls:

DAVID: This degree of protection of sperm transmission (the vagina is a particularly hostile place) implies thought behind the design of the processes, in which the dangers to the sperm have to recognized beforehand, and then planned for with appropriate protections built in. Not by chance: the creation of these protections is well beyond simple germ cellular abilities to foresee, design and produce.

dhw: I’m sorry, but this does not answer my question at all. You are simply reiterating the argument that everything is too complex not to have been designed, and cells are not capable of designing such complexities. We know you think God did it all, so skip the origin question and just tell me how cells put things right when the automaticity goes wrong, and what is the small degree that is not preprogrammed.

As above, epigenetic modifications by the germ cells


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