David's theory of evolution: James A. Shapiro's view (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 10:42 (246 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: We know organisms reproduce exact copies unless there are major mutations. It may look chaotic in the new discoveries because it surprises the Darwinian folks, and yet really be preprogrammed to a large degree.[…]

dhw: It is the small degree that interests me. For instance, how did the systems originate in the first place (you say preprogrammed or dabbled by God, Shapiro says “natural genetic engineering”), and how do they put themselves right when the smooth automaticity goes wrong? God reprogrammes or dabbles them again, or autonomous intelligence again comes into play?

DAVID: Obvious: The germ cells may have some epigenetic ability to make minor modifications as necessary.

dhw: If this is an answer to my question, then the cells have the autonomous ability to correct any errors, i.e. to reorganize themselves, and so it is not unreasonable to suggest that they may also have the autonomous ability to organize themselves into new structures. Not proven – just a theory. If your statement is not an answer to my question, then please answer my question.

DAVID: Your answer to my answer presents your Shapiro theory. We still have no proof the germ cells, themselves, can do this, but that is where the changes in DNA must occur.

Thank you for agreeing that the cells have an autonomous ability (the “small degree”) to make minor modifications. Shapiro’s theory is that this autonomy extends to major modifications. Not proven, but nor is any theory, including your own.

dhw: Isn’t it interesting that these different reactions and interactions go all the way back to bacteria. It makes you wonder whether even single-celled organisms don’t have some kind of equivalent to the brain, doesn’t it, especially when you consider how intelligent they seem to be?

DAVID: No, all it shows is that God planned in advance for the future of evolution. Bacteria had to have these abilities to live on their own with automatic responses to challenges.

If their responses are automatic, then your God must have preprogrammed them to solve every problem throughout the history of life. No “abilities” necessary. Actually it is your fixed belief that ALL undabbled evolutionary changes were preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago. And every single one, extant and extinct, was designed for the sole purpose of eventually producing H. sapiens!

dhw: How do they [molecular motors] coordinate, and what directs the motors in the first place? And how do the cells produce their own products in a very organized fashion? Some scientists think it’s all organized by the equivalent of a brain within the cell, but at the moment it is indeed “poorly understood”. Let’s keep an open mind, shall we?

DAVID: The cells' 'brain' is in the genome filled with instructional information to run the processes.

Ah, so now they do have a ‘brain’, but it was preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago, as above. Why “instructional information” and not “instructions”?

Under "brain complexity":
Quote: Glia are gaining a reputation for the complexity long attributed to neurons, but it’s still unclear whether one cell type primarily directs the other. “The big unknown in the field is: Who is driving the response?” she said.

Yep, that is the big unknown. A friend of mine says it was all preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago, but some folk suggest cellular intelligence (possible designed by a God).

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