David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, December 21, 2019, 10:38 (37 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: God created the evolutionary process, as the designer. Preprogramming and dabbling are two obvious guesses as to how He performed His action.

dhw: If God exists, then of course he created the evolutionary process. And we are discussing what that process might be, together with the likelihood of each alternative. You ONLY offer a 3.8-billion-year programme for every undabbled innovation, life form, strategy etc. in the history of life, and refuse to consider any other “guess”.

DAVID: I've studied your attempts at an evolutionary theory and you don't understand why God waited to produce us through evolution.

My own “attempts” are alternatives, two of which allow for your anthropocentric interpretation of your God’s purpose. My objection is to your combined assumptions about God’s nature, method and purpose, as bolded below.

dhw: You seem to think that all theists believe your all-powerful, all-knowing God preprogrammed or personally dabbled every evolutionary innovation, strategy, econiche, lifestyle and natural wonder in life’s history, and he did so in order to fill in the time he had inexplicably decided to take (3.X billion years) before embarking on fulfilling his one and only purpose, which was to design H. sapiens. This agnostic accepts the possibility of a God in charge, but that does not mean he must accept a way-out and illogical theory when there are logical alternatives. […]

DAVID: I view your proposals as inventing a humanized God. Your take on God is wildly different than mine. You view my view as illogical. I view your views as logical humanized versions of God.

Thank you for agreeing yet again that my alternatives are logical, and for the earlier observation that your God “very well could think like us.” I could hardly wish for a clearer nod of recognition, except that you keep on trying to discredit your own judgement.

DAVID: Like you I form my views from an amalgam of thoughts and contributions from various experts. Adler offers one aspect; our unexpected uniqueness. ID research offers other parts. You are wedded to Shapiro's proposals.

I have no objection to Adler’s focus on our uniqueness or to the ID argument that the complexities of life indicate intelligent design. It is the combination of ideas bolded above that you yourself acknowledge requires nothing illogical “if one does not apply human reasoning to the actual history”.

DAVID: The usual twisted retort. Adler shows me His purpose to produce us, but not the 'why' you so avidly seek. You want us to keep guessing at it!

It is not twisted. It is a clear acknowledgement that the combined beliefs bolded above cannot logically be applied to the actual history.

DAVID: I have applied my human reason to what history presents: A God in charge evolved H. Sapiens over the time it took.

dhw: But that does not explain why your God DECIDED to specially design billions of other non-human life forms etc. over billions of years etc. etc., as bolded above.

DAVID: Again, your inverted thinking. You just admitted He could have used evolution which history describes. Why do you want it both ways?

He would have used evolution to produce ALL the branches of the bush of life, as you acknowledge below, complete with your acknowledgement that this does not fit in with the theory bolded above:

DAVID: God in running evolution preferred branches of development, not single twigs. History declares that fact.

dhw: Of course it does. And that is why your theory cannot be logically applied to the actual history. As you have said yourself, the “process of producing physical forms should proceed into a specific direction if humans are to be evolved”. It didn’t, and that is what makes your theory so illogical.

DAVID: But it did have exact directionality to H. sapiens when the time came 300,000 year ago. Upright beings go back more than 2-3 million years with a steady progression of more advanced forms.

But according to you, your God’s one and only purpose was to produce H. sapiens, so yet again: 1) why did he decide to wait 3.X billion years before embarking on the “evolution” of H. sapiens, thereby having to design billions of other non-human life forms etc. as bolded above, and 2) why did he specially design all these itty-bitty “advances” when over and over again you tell us that evolution is the history of new species produced by jumps and not by itty-bitty “advances”? Your only answer is that this is what happened and therefore God planned it or dabbled it to happen like this. You won’t even consider the possibility that your own human reading of his mind might be wrong, illogical though it is. Maybe he was experimenting; maybe humans were a latecomer in his thinking; or maybe – to use your own intriguing expression – this was a “natural living development”, i.e. each change came about as the intelligent response of intelligent cell communities (perhaps designed by your God) to new conditions and demands or opportunities. Now there’s a thought! :-)

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