David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, December 08, 2019, 16:23 (1810 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: 'Delay' is entirely your concept. God in charge desired to produce humans and chose to do it by evolving them from bacteria. Evolution takes time, so it is obvious He accepted the delay as a natural consequence.

dhw: You say you don’t need to know why God delayed, but that is what he decided to do, so how can it be entirely my concept? It is YOUR concept that his only purpose was to produce humans, and so of course the 3.X billion years of not producing humans constitutes a delay. If he had a different purpose, e.g. to produce a vast variety of different life forms, there would have been no “delay”.

When God chose to evolve humans He knew He had to provide the bush of life so all could eat to survive during the time it took. I know you don't doubt the necessity for econiches/nature in balance.

dhw:If his one and only purpose was to produce humans, and he was experimenting in order to do so, that would explain the “delay”. But you have no idea why there was a delay – you just “accept” your subjective interpretation because you are convinced that "that is exactly what he did as his decision".

Remember there really is no delay as evolution from bacteria to humans takes the time it took, one advance at a time..

dhw: I cannot accept your theory of God’s combined purpose and method (not “how you believe in God”), and the fact that you have to abandon human logic in order to believe it is unlikely to win you many human supporters!

DAVID: Faith is arrived at by seeing evidence beyond reasonable doubt. I used plenty of reason to get where I am. Your most unreasonable thinking is that obvious design, which requires a designer leads you the fence.

dhw: As you very well know, I am not questioning your well reasoned faith in the existence of a designer God. I am questioning your highly subjective interpretation of his purpose and method in creating life and evolution.

Of course it is subjective, and the result of the years of research and reading I did. You have every right to question my reasoning. What you do is daydream humanistic thinking by a God whom you cannot accept.

dhw: Please explain what you meant when you said that your THEORY about your God’s choice of method (please don’t pretend you know that your choice was his choice) was not illogical “if one does apply human reasoning to the actual history”.

DAVID: Note I've said God thinks logically just as we do. His decisions on purposes are unknown and guessed at.

dhw: You have said that your interpretation of his purpose and method requires us NOT to apply human reasoning to the actual history. That means he does NOT think logically as we do, but he has some sort of logic of his own which is different from ours.

The usual misinterpretation: Of course He thinks logically to fulfill his purposes, about which we disagree.

dhw: You totally reject the possibility that he might have given up control over evolution (you “humanize” him as a control freak), and yet you believe he gave up control by creating free will. I only wish you would apply the same human logic to your theory of evolution as you do to the case for design as argued so cogently in your excellent books.

DAVID: Thank you, but you won't accept a designer from my books. Your argument that free will in humans indicates He would give up control over the direction of evolution is a strain in credulity. God controlled the new physical forms as evolution was directed to produce humans who would have consciousness and free will. You will note free will is not a physical form.

dhw: Free will is an example of God’s willingness to give up control. Of course uncontrolled evolution is a strain on your credulity if you have a fixed belief that your God did not give up control! That is the issue between us in this discussion! And the biggest strain on credulity comes from your insistence that his only purpose was to produce humans, but at the same time you tell us that “the process of producing physical forms should proceed into a specific direction if humans are to be evolved”, and you have no idea why he delayed by spending 3.X billion years NOT proceeding in that specific direction! Either you have mistaken his purpose, or you have mistaken his method, or you are simply abandoning all human logic (as you admit at one moment and deny the next).

Usual distorted mantra. God absolutely controlled the direction of evolution and the physical forms in order to reach humans to which He gave immaterial consciousness which included free will as the endpoint of evolution. Remember top predators control the balance of nature. I'm sure you remember that. As top predator we are in total control and better use the power wisely.