David's theory of evolution: James A. Shapiro's view (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, February 09, 2020, 11:34 (235 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: If he had a clear overall plan for evolution and programmed all the above, he must have known about future environmental changes. Did he create them, or did he forecast them? Dabbling means intervention. Why would he have to intervene if he knew everything in advance? Please answer both questions. If you can’t, then we have yet another logical gap in your theory of evolution.

DAVID: I have already said I don't know if God fully knows every little step or minor event in total omniscience. For example, does He know the exact track of every tornado in advance, or does He set general weather patterns in motion and allow them to do what they will. I am not a fundamentalist who believes God's work is involved in every uprooted tree from the storm. It is in evolution where I am convinced human were the evolutionary goal starting with bacteria as below:

We are not talking about your God’s single goal or about uprooted trees. We are talking specifically about the environmental changes for which you claim your God provided the first cells with programmes to enable bacteria to adapt and other organisms to adapt or innovate. And so the question remains: how could he have programmed them to adapt/innovate if he did not know the future environmental conditions that would require or allow the adaptations and innovations?

DAVID: But He did get all He wanted by using evolution to achieve all His goals, with humans the final.

dhw: What are “all his goals”?

DAVID: In evolution there are always interim stages and goals, as you admit in quotes above.

dhw: Of course there are interim stages if you believe in common descent! And if God exists, of course there are goals. Now please answer the question: What other goals do you think your God may have had apart from creating H. sapiens, and (one interim goal) to keep life going until he had covered the time he inexplicably decided to take before creating H. sapiens?(David’s bold)

DAVID: Your usual strange mantra. Humans are the prime goal, others were stages in evolution as your bolded words above indicates. What are you questioning just for the sake of questioning?

My bolded words do not state that all the interim stages were for the purpose of producing humans! If you believe in common descent, then all existing multicellular organisms have passed through interim stages! The whale is a prime example. And I am not questioning for the sake of questioning. I keep proposing that your God’s goals were not restricted to the creation of H. sapiens and keeping life going before he did it. For instance, the painter’s love of his paintings, the enjoyment of an unpredictable spectacle or of experimenting…But you refuse to consider any other “goals” with your now totally discredited argument that they “humanize” God, though he probably shares our thought patterns and emotions! So why mention plural "goals" if you refuse to look beyond the one goal you impose on him?

DAVID: Bacterial responses requirements are few. Environment has one requirement that is special, finding the right energy source in each different one.

Extraordinary reasoning. If you were able to live in all the environments bacteria have learned to live in without any equipment other than your biological self, you would be the superman of all supermen. The requirements are as many as the environments in which bacteria live.


DAVID: It fails to explain the fossil gaps, which so troubled Gould, but not you, as you stick with a weird invention of cells simply speciating.

dhw: […] The fact that you don’t believe it does not invalidate the fact that it is an attempt to explain the gaps – no weirder than your theory of the 3.8-billion-year programme devised by your God.

DAVID: I know it is your attempt, which ignores the need for a designer to make new species.

So according you, the theory that intelligent cells which design new species ignores the need for new species to be designed. And the theory that intelligent cells explain the gaps in the fossil record does not explain the gaps in the fossil record.

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