David's theory of evolution: James A. Shapiro's view (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Sunday, December 15, 2019, 19:07 (291 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Once a species of bacteria appears they will then vary on their own with adaptations. God is not needed for in species variation.

dhw: So God is not needed for their adaptations, and they find their own solutions (e.g. to new medicines) in order to remain themselves. How can they possibly do this without the cognitive faculties which until now you have insisted were merely preprogrammed instructions?

DAVID: Obvious. They have programmed instruction in how to make adaptations to new challenges.

dhw: They vary “on their own” with adaptations and God is not needed for in species variation, but when they adapt (= in species variation), they are not on their own and they need God’s instructions. Don’t you find this confusing?

Not at all. Adaptations within a species are minor variations. Species are new innovations requiring design.


DAVID: Of course they act cognitively, but in my view it is automatic. We are playing with words.

dhw: You are playing with words. You agree that they are cognitive, but you insist that they are not cognitive because they are automatically obeying your God’s instructions.

DAVID: Whoa! Acting cognitively recognized what they look like they are doing automatically.

dhw: I don’t understand this sentence. What “recognized” what? “They act cognitively” means they know what they are doing. You now say they do not know what they are doing but act automatically. So they do not act cognitively. More confusion.

Simple. Acting cognitively can be an appearance from automaticity. My usual thought


DAVID: In my view God changes the stem cell programming for new species and for you they hold a committee meeting.

dhw: Let’s spell it out then: according to you, every single innovation was either preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago, with stem cells somehow knowing which programme to switch on at which time, or your God personally dabbled with the stem cells of each forerunner of every species (all organized and timed to fit in with his decision not to achieve the only thing he wanted to achieve, which was the production of us). Is that a fair summary of your fixed belief?

DAVID: Your usual twisted version of my beliefs.

dhw: Please specify which part of the above is “twisted”.

God decided to evolve us. You complain about the delay, worried about by you. why?


DAVID: The other problem is that in embryology there are other physico-chemical-electrical forces that have shown to play roles, so it is not just making cells with new functions.

dhw: Presumably you think these forces were also programmed 3.8 billion years ago to play their appropriate role in speciation – or God popped in to adjust these forces as required.

DAVID: It is obvious once a new species exists it know fully how to make new copies. For me God speciates.

dhw: Of course it knows how to make new copies – otherwise the species would disappear. I was pointing out that your view of speciation is that all aspects were either preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago or dabbled by your God. Or does your version of God have any other means of speciating?

I still stick to the thought that God designs species


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