David's theory of evolution: James A. Shapiro's view (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, December 22, 2019, 22:38 (1796 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Sunday, December 22, 2019, 22:47

dhw: You are getting confused. It’s your theory of evolution that leaves you out on your own.

DAVID: No it doesn't. The ID folks group is filled with many scientists. I've only introduced a few. Their belief, which I think you fully understand, is that a designer is required for all advances in evolution.

dhw: I don’t know how often you want me to repeat that I accept the logic both of Adler and of ID. The rest of your post is devoted entirely to ID logic and the existence of God. That is NOT the issue between us, as you very well know. Neither Adler nor ID offer any support for your theory of evolution,

My theory of evolution is that God ran it based on ID theory. Adler makes no point about that, but that our existence proves God. You accept dibs and dabs of ID and Adler

DAVID: Remember 50/50. Shapiro, you and I are on the outside and I have picked my view of Shapiro's work. You have your view, in an attempt to avoid God.

dhw; I don’t know why you persist in ignoring all the quotes in your own book. Here they are, yet again:
“...living cells are cognitive (sentient) entities that act and interact purposefully…”.

They “have the ability to alter their hereditary characteristics.”
"...evolutionary novelty arises from the prosecution of new cell and multicellular structures as a result of cellular self-modification”.

“Natural genetic engineering and other evolutionary innovative processes respond to stimuli [… ] primarily at times of ecological disruption […]

Do please stop pretending that this does NOT propose cellular intelligence as the creator of evolutionary novelty (= innovations = speciation). You quoted all of this in your book, and commented that the cognitive cellular networks have the ability to “respond to the present”, “using information as it appears” – in direct contrast to your theory that cells have been preprogrammed or dabbled with in advance to produce their innovations.

To sum up: I do not “want” microorganisms to have minds, and I am not alone in believing that they may have minds: this is a theory proposed by many scientists, some of whom are renowned experts in the field. Shapiro has used their findings and his to propose a theory of “natural genetic engineering” in which intelligent cells produce the innovations that cause speciation in response to environmental changes. I find the theory far more credible than your own, but acknowledge that it remains a theory and is unproven, just like every other theory of speciation. The theory, unlike your own, is confined to the mechanisms of evolution and does not attempt to speculate on the existence of a possible God or of his possible purpose.It does not, however, in any way preclude the existence of a God.

What you seem not to see is bacteria are live-on-their-own organisms. Of course their reactions look and seem intelligent. They were originally created by God with all of the Shapiro-discovered attributes in order to survive on their own. This is why the ID folks celebrate Shapiro's findings. They and I see Shapiro as supporting the need for a designer. These are onboard instructions in single cells from the designer. There must be 10-15 ID scientists who use this approach that I have read. If you did a little real ID reading/studying you might finally recognize the positions I come from. I think you have never researched ID on your own. How complete are your own studies?

Multicellular organisms have very specialized cells and only some are programmed to respond to new stimuli and circumstances. We still don't know if those animals know how to speciate on their own, or if they have some special cells with that ability. Shapiro touches none of that, nor does he extrapolate as you do. All his book does is tout his discoveries which should be touted as great additions to our knowledge. He is a great scientist as my quoting him shows. It is obvious you have no idea of my thought patterns as I relate to the presence of God.