David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, January 08, 2020, 14:03 (1779 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: The word illogical is a constant in your thinking about my theories. You constantly forget we start with different basic premises about God. Using His works a guide is not illogical.

dhw: Yet again, you refuse to tell me what I have distorted. Of course using his works as a guide is not illogical. But your explanation, according to your unforgettable confession, is not illogical "if one does not apply human reasoning to the actual history"!

DAVID: You have me at a disadvantage. You can find old quotes and take them out of context. Repeat: I don't guess at God's reasons for his obvious purposes. you love to as you humanize Him.

They are not out of context, since they always refer to nothing but your illogical theory, and how old is old? They go back a few months, and in any case you still can’t give us a logical explanation, as below:

DAVID: I can certainly and logically conclude God chose to evolve humans from a start with bacteria.

But you can’t explain why, if that was his only purpose, he spent 3.X billion years evolving billions of non-human life forms, natural wonders etc. to fill in the time he had decided to take before starting to “evolve” humans (and by “evolve” you mean specially design every little twiddly bit that led from pre-humans to H. sapiens).

DAVID: […] My God does not need to experiment. He knows how to achieve the ends He wants.

dhw: And so you have him deciding to spend 3.X billion years designing billions of non-human life forms, econiches, natural wonders etc., […] and you “have no idea why”.(Experimentation gives you a logical reason why, IF H.sapiens was his one and only purpose. There are several other theistic alternatives that explain the actual history of life.)

DAVID: Only as you insist upon humanizing His thoughts. Either you suggest instant creation or experimentation. Both humanizing concepts about God.

I have several suggestions to show that H. sapiens was not his only goal, or if humans were his goal, he either experimented (which explains the bush) or the idea came late on in his thinking. And you agree these are logical explanations, but you have such a rigid vision of your God that you cannot believe he might possibly have any attributes in common with humans, even though he “very well could think like us”.

DAVID: Under your cockamamie thought pattern, our universe is the first of many that was correct enough among the experimental types he tried, which allowed Him to start life, using your comment in the other thread that we do not know when universes began: " How the heck do you know that the universe is not infinite in time? What came before the big bang,? " My God decided to evolve humans from bacteria without mamby-pamby side tracking.

dhw: I have no idea what your God might have got up to before the big bang, if the big bang ever happened, but that is irrelevant to our discussion, which concerns the illogicality of your personal theory of evolution, summed up perfectly by your last remark. It is you who insist on the side tracking [for 3.X billion years, as summarized ad nauseam above]. To quote you yet again, in another unforgettable remark directed at me: “Haven’t you realized by now, I have no idea why God chose to evolve humans over time?”

DAVID: Nothing wrong with the bolded statement of mine. I don't guess about God's reasons. You do and constantly humanize Him. It is simple to understand God if you accept history, as you claim you do and then backtrack. We can analyze God though His works without guessing His reasons as you do.

It is your reasons that are under scrutiny (as summarized ad nauseam above: i.e. the reason for his specially designing 3.X billion years’ worth of non-human life forms etc. was to fill in time before turning to the real reason he created life, which was to produce you and me).

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QUOTE Under “Nature’s Wonders”: "Like most plants, soybeans pair up with soil fungi in a symbiotic mycorrhizal relationship. In exchange for a bit of sugar, the fungus acts as an extension of the root system to pull in more phosphorus, nitrogen, micronutrients, and water than the plant could on its own.

DAVID: Both organisms benefit. How did this happen? Genes have to modified. That takes time unless it happens all at once due to God's action.

Just to illustrate the manner in which you insist that every natural wonder was preprogrammed by your God 3.8 billion years ago. You don’t think it’s possible that instead of all these billions of programmes, your God might have provided those first cells with a mechanism that would enable them to work out their own modes of survival. The only alternative you offer is that he personally gave courses in symbiosis to soybeans and soil fungi. (These programmes or private lessons are what you like to call “guidelines”.)