David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, April 14, 2020, 16:09 (1682 days ago) @ David Turell

Transferred from the big bush thread: this encapsulates most of your attempts to distract attention from the illogicality of your theory by pretending that although my alternatives fit in with life’s history, yours is correct and therefore I am attacking God, not you..

DAVID: Your whole series of comments about God's activities resembles a discontent spectator at a sports match. From your unhappy viewpoint, the manager and/or the team captain really have very little idea of what they are planning or how to conduct the action for the best result. You don't really know the persons involved, or how they reasonably think from their vast knowledge of the game, but in your opinion they are not doing what you think is correct. Your very weak image of your god leads you very astray from what real theists think.

If God exists, I am not in the least discontent with any of my theistic alternative explanations of evolution. I am only discontent with your interpretation of his use of evolution, because not even you can make sense of an all-powerful God with just one purpose (humans) proceeding to specially design billions of extinct non-human life forms, econiches, natural wonders etc. so the life forms can eat one another before he specially designs the only things he wants to design! Please stop kidding yourself that your theory of evolution makes you the only “real” theist. Deists also believe in God. A deist is someone who believes that God initiated creation but then allowed it to pursue its own course. Ring a bell?

DAVID: God started the universe knowing that humans were His final goal. His methodology was fully thought out in advance. He had no need to experiment or create spectacles.

Why do you state this as a fact? How do you know what God knows or knew, thinks or doesn’t think, can and can’t do?

DAVID: Everything we know about are His deliberate creations. We theists don't second guess Him like you do. No wonder you are floundering around in a morass of your own human criticisms of a god which you describe, not realizing how much you are debating, from your strange viewpoint, with a humanized version. Note I do not capitalize your god versions.

I make no criticism whatsoever of God! The criticism is of your theory of God’s motives and methods. My various alternatives are not criticisms either. Why do you think a learning God, an experimenting God, or a God who enjoys his creations as a painter enjoys his paintings must be criticized? You have repeatedly demolished your own “humanizing” mantra by confirming the possibility (previously called a probability) that your god has similar thought patterns, emotions and attributes to our own. Please stop flogging that dead horse.

dhw: Your God is such a control freak that even a weaverbird can’t build its own nest without his “guidelines”! But please tell us what other non-human interests you think your hidden God has in the world he has created.

DAVID: You just don't like or recognize a purposeful God who knows exactly what He is doing and why it must be done in advance.

I just don't like the combination of purpose and method you impose on your God! One of my alternatives is a God whose purpose is to create an ever changing spectacle. He knows exactly what he is doing, and what he creates in advance is the mechanism to keep the spectacle changing. End of that silly argument. Now will you please tell us what other non-human interests you think your God has in the world he has created.

dhw: […] my view is that if your all-powerful God’s sole purpose for creating life was to create humans, the only food supply needed would have been a food supply for humans, so why would he specially design millions of extinct food supplies for millions of extinct species?

DAVID: Interesting confused view of evolution. The known history is what God did, and it is all perfectly reasonable, since it went from bacteria, still here and useful. And we have a food supply that fits the requirements. Still your very confused view of who God is.

The known history is indeed what God did – if he exists – and you have not answered my question! Bacteria would still be around even if the dinosaurs had never existed. I’m afraid your confusion is not removed by telling me that I’m confused.

DAVID: you poison your own thinking by viewing God from the wrong viewpoint to start with. And later: How about consulting some theists writings for guidance in how to think about God?

If God exists, only he knows the right viewpoint. Meanwhile, we have dealt with your silly food supply argument, you have demolished your own humanizing argument, you have no idea why your God would have chosen the method you have chosen for him in order to fulfil the purpose you have chosen for him, and you have acknowledged that all my different alternatives fit in with life’s history. You’ve also told us not to try and find God’s reasons for choosing your version of evolution because we can’t know them. Apparently we can only know that his reason for choosing your version of evolution is that you are a “real” theist.