David's theory of evolution: James A. Shapiro's view (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, December 07, 2019, 17:17 (1811 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: OF course his theory is based on his bacterial work. The other references try to show how his theory might fit into evotionaary studis in how speciation works. All theories do that.

dhw: So (a) I have not misused or bastardized his theories, and you can’t think of any of my conclusions that he would disagree with, and b) since he uses current research on multicellularity to support his theory of speciation, it is not true to say that his theory of speciation is based solely on his research into bacteria.

If Shapiro tries to use his findings on bacteria to look for some way for speciation to occur, he is attaching his findings to current research he has not done. Of course you have bastardized his theories by deciding cells are so intelligent they can invent new species.

DAVID: I'm as clear as you and Shapiro are that multicellular organisms can adapt to current changes. All I'm pointing out is that doesn't seem to lead to speciation, which was Darwin's idea.

dhw: I do not recall Darwin ever mentioning cellular intelligence as the mechanism for evolutionary innovation. Yes, we know that cells and cell communities adapt, and you are merely pointing out that you don’t believe they can innovate, whereas Shapiro’s theory is that they can.

Darwin said itty-bitty adaptations would lead to new species. Why do you persist in reinterpreting what I plainly write? Shapiro's theory says he MIGHT be showing a way to understand speciation in a more completely understandable way. Cells' ability to manipulate DNA is merely a clue as to the process. Stem cells do act like he describes, but the change has to happen in germ cells for a difference in future forms to happen.

DAVID: I repeat it obviously requires design for the new complexity. Since you cannot accept a designer, you look hopefully to magic cells to do it without Him. Or you give a sop to theism by offering that God made intelligent cells doing it on their own. All a game on your part. Either way God is in charge.

dhw: And now you scoot back to your own beliefs, refusing to accept the possibility that your God might have had a different purpose and method from those that you believe in. No, cellular intelligence designed by God is not a “sop” to theism. (You have told us that Shapiro is a practising Jew. As an agnostic, I never exclude the possibility of a God.) Nor is it a game. But yes, either way, if God exists he is in charge. My theistic proposal is that his decision was to design autonomous cellular intelligence in order to give evolution free rein (with the freedom to dabble). Your decision is that he preprogrammed or dabbled every single innovation throughout life’s history for the sole purpose of creating us. See “David’s theory of evolution” for your own verdict on the illogicality of your theory.

I've commented on my view of God in the other thread.