David's theory of evolution Part Two (Evolution)

by David Turell , Monday, December 09, 2019, 19:23 (1809 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: 'Delay' is entirely your concept. God in charge desired to produce humans and chose to do it by evolving them from bacteria. Evolution takes time, so it is obvious He accepted the delay as a natural consequence.

dhw: You say you don’t need to know why God delayed, but that is what he decided to do, so how can it be entirely my concept? It is YOUR concept that his only purpose was to produce humans, and so of course the 3.X billion years of not producing humans constitutes a delay. If he had a different purpose, e.g. to produce a vast variety of different life forms, there would have been no “delay”.

DAVID: When God chose to evolve humans He knew He had to provide the bush of life so all could eat to survive during the time it took. I know you don't doubt the necessity for econiches/nature in balance.

dhw: No, I don’t doubt it. For the hundredth time: What I doubt is the argument that a totally in charge God, whose one and only purpose was to produce H. sapiens would DECIDE (your word) to DELAY (your word) fulfilling that purpose for 3.X billion years, and therefore HAD TO (your words) specially design millions of non-human life forms in vast numbers of non-human econiches in order to COVER (your word) the time he had DECIDED (your word) to take before starting to fulfil his one and only purpose. As you so rightly pointed out: “the process of producing physical forms should proceed into a specific direction if humans are to be evolved”, but it proceeded in lots and lots of different directions, and you have NO IDEA (your words) why your God produced all those millions of non-human physical forms before producing the only one he wanted. That is why, in your own words, your theory is only logical “if one does not apply human reasoning to the actual history”.

It's easy for me. I have no problem with your illogical agnostic thinking, as I accept God in charge and that He knew exactly what He was doing. And you cannot accept the thought processes I use because of our different approaches. there is n o way to solve our differences.

DAVID: Remember there really is no delay as evolution from bacteria to humans takes the time it took, one advance at a time.

dhw: Two days ago you wrote: “I don’t need to know why God delayed, because that is exactly what he did as his decision.” So he decided to delay, but I must remember that there is no delay.

It is your delay, not mine. It was required time.

dhw: Free will is an example of God’s willingness to give up control.

DAVID: God absolutely controlled the direction of evolution and the physical forms in order to reach humans to which He gave immaterial consciousness which included free will as the endpoint of evolution. Remember top predators control the balance of nature. I'm sure you remember that. As top predator we are in total control and better use the power wisely.

dhw: It is what you call a “hopeful theory” that your God chose to control the direction of evolution, and millions of the physical forms and econiches with their top predators had nothing to do with humans, which you claim were his only purpose.

Again a denial of the necessity for econiches to feed all for the time it took.

DAVID (quoting in "addendum"): "Today, of course, one predator has more influence than any other. bbbWe have created the extraordinary ecological situation where we are the top predator and the top consumer in all habitats.bbb “Humans are certainly the overdominant keystones and will be the ultimate losers if the rules are not understood and global ecosystems continue to deteriorate,” Paine says. The only species that can regulate us is us."

DAVID’s comment: Proper balance with top predators means everyone survives properly and every one eats. I'm sure God understood this when He set up the bush of life. Dhw's worry about a delay to reach humans is totally illogical in view of what we know about top predators. God chose to evolve humans and set them up as top predators as the bold above notes. All that God did was logically required.

dhw: Once more: There were econiches with top predators for thousands of millions of years before humans arrived. It is you who claim that there was a delay (which was God’s inexplicable decision), and there is no logic whatsoever in claiming that over the 3.X billion years before the first signs of humans, the millions of non-human econiches with their top predators were necessary to cover the time that your God had decided to take before beginning to fulfil his one and only purpose. Hence, for the umpteenth time, your own acknowledgement that your theory cannot logically be applied to the actual history.

Your usual denial of the logic that comes from a belief in God and his power. We will never have an agreement on this point. My logic versus your illogical thoughts about God.