David's theory of evolution: James A. Shapiro's view (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, February 09, 2020, 21:41 (1747 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I have already said I don't know if God fully knows every little step or minor event in total omniscience. For example, does He know the exact track of every tornado in advance, or does He set general weather patterns in motion and allow them to do what they will. I am not a fundamentalist who believes God's work is involved in every uprooted tree from the storm. It is in evolution where I am convinced human were the evolutionary goal starting with bacteria as below:

dhw: We are talking specifically about the environmental changes for which you claim your God provided the first cells with programmes to enable bacteria to adapt and other organisms to adapt or innovate. And so the question remains: how could he have programmed them to adapt/innovate if he did not know the future environmental conditions that would require or allow the adaptations and innovations?

He did know. The dinosaurs are a major clue. I think He threw Chixculub knowing the dinos were not prepared to handle it. As I noted above, every detail (per fundamentalists) is not important for God. I'm sure He worked with overall environmental changes and dappled as necessary.

DAVID: In evolution there are always interim stages and goals, as you admit in quotes above.

dhw: Of course there are interim stages if you believe in common descent! And if God exists, of course there are goals. Now please answer the question: What other goals do you think your God may have had apart from creating H. sapiens, and (one interim goal) to keep life going until he had covered the time he inexplicably decided to take before creating H. sapiens?(David’s bold)

DAVID: Your usual strange mantra. Humans are the prime goal, others were stages in evolution as your bolded words above indicates. What are you questioning just for the sake of questioning?

dhw: My bolded words do not state that all the interim stages were for the purpose of producing humans! If you believe in common descent, then all existing multicellular organisms have passed through interim stages! The whale is a prime example. And I am not questioning for the sake of questioning. I keep proposing that your God’s goals were not restricted to the creation of H. sapiens and keeping life going before he did it. For instance, the painter’s love of his paintings, the enjoyment of an unpredictable spectacle or of experimenting…But you refuse to consider any other “goals” with your now totally discredited argument that they “humanize” God, though he probably shares our thought patterns and emotions! So why mention plural "goals" if you refuse to look beyond the one goal you impose on him?

Of course there were stages as shown by the great gaps, which your theory cannot explain. Because as I cannot convince you, it is humanizing as in giving God the bolded desires above.

DAVID: Bacterial responses requirements are few. Environment has one requirement that is special, finding the right energy source in each different one.

dhw: Extraordinary reasoning. If you were able to live in all the environments bacteria have learned to live in without any equipment other than your biological self, you would be the superman of all supermen. The requirements are as many as the environments in which bacteria live.

No they are not. All needed is temperature adaption and finding metabolism for energy supply.

dhw: MY THEORY DOES NOT ENTAIL FUTURE PLANNING!

DAVID: It fails to explain the fossil gaps, which so troubled Gould, but not you, as you stick with a weird invention of cells simply speciating.

dhw: […] The fact that you don’t believe it does not invalidate the fact that it is an attempt to explain the gaps – no weirder than your theory of the 3.8-billion-year programme devised by your God.

DAVID: I know it is your attempt, which ignores the need for a designer to make new species.

dhw: So according you, the theory that intelligent cells which design new species ignores the need for new species to be designed. And the theory that intelligent cells explain the gaps in the fossil record does not explain the gaps in the fossil record.

The problem is the extraordinary theory that germ cells can make designs for future needs or even can make major changes in a new environment (your theory). The adaptations you keep referring to are major, not minor. The gaps show no evidence of gradual changes. Why don't you recognize Gould's prime worry? Giant changes require a designing mind