Natures wonders: insect migration (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, December 05, 2021, 08:21 (873 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: The author is exactly saying the new bee has an instruction manual to learn the dance meanings. He does not mention God but the source is an ID site.

But you agree that they watch the dance, learn the movements, experience what they are told to look for, and memorize all the information. If they perform all these actions, what could be in the “manual” other than your God (if he exists) telling them to use the autonomous ability he has given them to watch, learn, experience and memorize?

Ant bridge algorithm
DAVID: We know it is a result of evolution providing consciousness with thought in humans.

dhw: How does that mean that no form of consciousness or thought evolved in other life forms?

DAVID: Not our degree, and how much automaticity of response?

I have repeatedly said: apart from time and scale. Scale = degree. See below for “automaticity”.

QUOTE: To see how this unfolds, take the perspective of an ant on the march. When it comes to a gap in its path, it slows down. The rest of the colony, still barreling along at 12 centimeters per second, comes trampling over its back.

dhw: My guess is that the other 149,999 ants would then fall straight into the water. […]

DAVID: You missed the point they automatically hold on to each other when stepped upon.

dhw: You missed the point that the author has missed the point that ants are not stupid. The first ant stops when it sees a gap (sentience and cognition), and other ants don’t go trampling over its back. They build on each other. The origin of the process of bridge-building – like all their other complex activities – requires cognition, sentience, purposefulness with sensory, communication, information-processing and decision-making capabilities. Once the technique has been perfected, it will be handed down – no doubt with adjustments to individual conditions. Once more: how does this differ from human activity, other than through time and scale?

DAVID: Automaticity can explain all of it. We are still on the outside looking at a 50/50 probability, just as in cells.

50/50, but you go on opting for 100% automaticity and refuse to answer my question. Once again: Intelligence requires cognition, sentience, purposefulness with sensory, communication, information-processing and decision-making capabilities. All these attributes of intelligence are required for ant bridges, farms, nurseries, cities, strategies for defence and attack. Leaving aside your fixed belief, please explain why – apart from time required and scale of building etc – these obvious attributes are different from those we observe in humans.