Natures wonders: new found plant defenses (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, September 20, 2020, 15:51 (1313 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: What keeps this website going is not only the wonders, but also your amazing capacity for keeping us updated on the latest research in all the different fields – even on those rare occasions when the research goes against your own beliefs, as with the question of new genes. Our own discussions tend to go round in circles, but may sometimes help to clarify ideas. The articles you present are an ongoing education, which more than fulfils the hopes I had when I opened the website. So I am the one to say thank you, and yes, I’ll cheer you on even in the midst of our battles!

DAVID: To answer the bold, the internet makes finding new research easy. As for things that change my mind, I'm still learning, and my mind is open to every point that I feel is not settled. God is settled. The rest is still open.

dhw: I’m still cheering you on! Your second comment is very reassuring. I have absolutely no problem with your theism. You have provided the strongest possible case for your belief in God, and although I don’t share it (you know my reasons), I have complete respect for it. As an agnostic, I can never advance any theories of my own without leaving open the possibility that your God is the creator of life and its mechanisms. Where we differ is in our interpretation of life’s history and of a possible God’s motives and methods. It goes without saying that the atheist in me would find no purpose in life other than survival for all organisms and a variety of subjective purposes created by humans. But in our discussions on subjects such as evolution, I always wear my theist’s hat!

One of the areas always open for discussion is your theist's hat does not contain the same judgements as my hat about God and His personality

dhw: My point is that the system (I propose cellular intelligence, which does the "designing") is there from the beginning, but it constantly adapts as it has to work out defences against new threats. The “cures” are NOT there from the beginning. And I would extend this to the whole mechanism of evolution, as intelligent cells / cell communities respond to new conditions by adapting themselves (process proven) or by creating brand new structures (speciation - process unproven).

DAVID: We both agree cells act intelligently. I choose God, and you stick to wonder. So we debate.

dhw: Not quite. Remember that I’m wearing my theist’s hat. You believe in a 3.8-billion-year-old computer programme or direct dabbling as your God’s method of directing every single evolutionary change (plus every single econiche, natural wonder, strategy etc.). I propose (it is not as strong as a belief) that your God designed an autonomous mechanism enabling all organisms to do their own designing. This is not “sticking to wonder” – and even you have agreed that theoretically there is a 50/50 chance that what looks intelligent may actually be intelligent!

Again the difference is the view of God's personality, the degree of hands-on or hands-off.