Natures wonders: Subsea Microorganisms Long Life (Introduction)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Monday, August 20, 2018, 17:12 (2285 days ago) @ David Turell

DHW claims a third option, that he doesn't know and so refuses to choose, but that is not really the case. By his arguments, he has clearly made a choice and there is likely no evidence short of divine explanation which would convince him otherwise, as evidenced by our repeated and well documented attempts to show all the evidence AGAINST cellular intelligence and common descent on the scale he discusses.

David: You see dhw as rigid as I do.

Not rigid...indecisive, unwilling to make a choice, whether because he doesn't want to be wrong, is afraid he might be wrong, or whether in his own way he is trying to keep is mind open, afraid that making a choice means not being able to choose something different later. I don't know his motives, and these are just speculations based on observations.

Tony: David generally tries to have the best of both worlds; he recognizes the need for a designer, but tends to agree with evolution from common descent, though I think he waffles on that slightly, perhaps recognizing that the so-called bush of life doesn't match the genetic data, which seriously undermines the theory of common descent.

David: My waffle, as you note, is based on the genetic and morphologic tree obvious differences. I think you and I would agree as you really do below:

Tony: Personally, I believe in a creator God, reject mainstream evolution and common descent, but acknowledge the role of epigenetics, inheritance, and variation within a single species type, citing the commonality of genetic language as a prime illustration of how designers design! In short, a bear will always be a bear, and never anything but a bear, but it may be one of any number of bear variations. It never has been, nor will it ever be, a cow or dog, or cat or whale. And yet, it will have similarities with them because they all have similar functionality which requires similar design elements, just like most cars and trucks have 4 wheels and a engine, despite their other differences, and most of those wheels and engines will have similar elements and components even though they perform differently. This is true, and will always be true, because of the mechanical, physical requirements of being a car or truck. Likewise, all combustion engines, whether jet planes, boat engines, or car motors, will all has similar properties defined by mechanical need.

David: This is really my view. God started life, and reused whatever part He had perfected in moving from stage to stage. But life did evolve from simple to complex stages, in gaps/jumps controlled by God. So it depends on you use the word 'evolution' to describe the process to arrive at us. Perhaps 'stepwise' is a better term.

Step-wise is precisely what the bible describes, but not only for life, for all of creation, which is precisely what we see. As far as step-wise creation of life, I see it as necessary for the conditioning of the planet for further development.

Each stage of life coincided not only with what the environment could support, but also in what the animals could provide the environment. From mats of microbes that slowly broke down igneous rocks into soil and reconditioned the atmosphere to support larger life by increasing O2 levels, to the fish that that re-balanced microbial mats and the larger marine and bird life that fed on the fish. The biosphere was created in very discrete, very balanced stages, and at the end of each stage the Earth was brought to a new state of homeostasis, followed by a changing of the guard in terms of animal life. The old guard's task performed, they were simply allowed to die off in their time, slowly fading into the twilight of a Earth that was no longer a home suitable for them. The new guard started their new tasks, driving the planet to a new form of homeostasis over long epochs.

What I don't see happening, are mistakes. I see no genetic goofs in the fossil record, like "Oh shit, I'm a whale-dog-catapus!" Despite sharing huge portions of genetic programming, each block of code functions precisely as it need to for that particular organism in there environment. No oops, no evolution.

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.