Natures wonders: how plants became carnivores (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 15:35 (924 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Once more, many thanks for these amazing “natural wonders”. They are an education in themselves. I can understand your delight in sniping at Darwin, and I share your opinion that these complex processes could not have come about through random mutations followed by gradual, stepwise refinements. However, each time you snipe, I think back to your earlier insistence that all such processes can only have been brought about by God specially preprogramming them 3.8 billion years ago, or personally stepping in to mess around with the chemistry of the frogs/plants, because these froggy/planty tricks were essential to keep life going so that humans could evolve. Fortunately, you have now modified your stance and conceded that organisms may have an autonomous inventive mechanism designed by your God, who only steps in if he’s not happy with what’s going on. May I then, as we join forces in rejecting Darwin’s hypothesis of random mutations and gradualism, also assume that in all these cases you now believe that the cell communities of the organisms concerned may have used their (perhaps God-given) autonomous intelligence to design these processes, or do you still think your God preprogrammed them / personally dabbled them for the sake of humans?

DAVID: My thought pattern re' God and evolution is still quite simple. I have presented hundreds if not thousands of examples of complexity in the workings of the genetic mechanisms, complexity in biological processes supporting life, and in many of the lifestyle arrangements like the insect trapping plants. All of it strongly supports saltation, that is, all the various necessary parts appeared at once. Thus chance plays no role, which only leaves design, and so I think God is the designer and runs evolution. You struggle for a third way, when none appears obvious.

A masterly evasion of my question. If your God endowed living organisms with an autonomous inventive intelligence (which you have agreed is possible), chance plays no part other than through the random changes of the environment (unless your God arranged all of these himself). This is only a “third way” in the sense that it provides an alternative to divine preprogramming and direct intervention. You have accepted the possibility of an autonomous IM, provided it was designed by your God and he approved of what it did, so do you think the carnivorous plants and the frog’s tongue were preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago, personally dabbled by your God (in both cases, to keep life going so that humans could evolve), or the product of the cell communities’ autonomous intelligence, and approved by your God?


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