Natures wonders: bees cooperate just as ants do (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, September 23, 2018, 16:05 (2251 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

dhw: There is no conclusive evidence for any of these theories, each of which throws up unanswerable questions. Dead end?

TONY: No matter which trail you follow, you always end up at a dead end, not that there are no more questions, but that the questions are unanswerable. All four options require faith. The only question is, what do you have faith in, and what gives you those "assured expectations of things not beheld"?

There are certainly masses and masses of things not beheld, but why do you need to have faith in any of the options or to have assured expectations of anything?

Well, if they are 'certainly' there but are 'thing not beheld', then you are making a statement of faith. Also, I never said you NEED faith. It is perfectly acceptable not to have faith. However, the more you learn, eventually you reach a point where faith is a pre-requisite to learning anything more.

If you knew everything material reality could teach you without assuming the unknown, you would run into the wall of the unknowable, beyond which we can not see. That wall presents you with two choices: design or chance. Either choice is made on faith. Not blind faith; reasoned faith. This reasoned faith is, in a way, binding. It binds you to certain thought patterns, your priorities, your view of your own life and that of others, it grounds your particular morality and ethos.

If you choose faith in blind chance, then we are all meat sacks of chemical soup on a dirt ball of chemical soup interacting with other meat sacks of chemical soup. 'You' are not really 'you', but instead are an agent-less bundle of chemically induced illusions. Even the concept of 'you' is an illusion. You have no objective value, your choices have no meaning (because they are not really choices but simple chemical reactions to stimuli), others have no intrinsic value beyond how they excite your chemical soup. All life, including your own, is a random, purposeless event. Behave however you like, do whatever you want, how you want, to whom you want, because 'you' don't 'want' anything...its just chemical soup doing what chemical soup does, and you don't have a choice anyway. And death is just death, a decomposition of your chemical soup back into its constituent parts, which really doesn't matter because you are no more sentient than a paperclip, just more complex. Pain and pleasure, joy, love, sorrow, remorse....these are all just chemical responses, rendering the entirety of your existence and all of your experience and effort pointless. Why bother to do anything at all?

If you choose faith in a designer, regardless of your views of the designer, then there is at a minimum, purpose. You were designed with a purpose, even if that purpose was as entertainment or a slave. It also acknowledges something greater exists, to which, will we nil we, we are subject to as the rightful authority. After all, who has the property right the owner/creator of the property or the property itself? It presents the universe as 'not our property, as well as our lives and the lives of others. It means that we are accountable for how we behave towards and with this property, beholden to the properties owner. It means that there may be rules, laws, or orders that we should follow. It means that all things, great and small, are due at least the amount of respect that someone else's property deserves. It means we are obligated to something other than ourselves by virtue of our very existence. Respect and obligation(duty) are the foundation of love, which literally means 'to care for as a precious gift', if you trace the words back as far as we can. It forms the foundation of humility, appreciation, gratitude, and even purpose. If nothing else is known except that there is a designer, then at least part of your purpose is to care for their property, as if it were a precious gift.

I agree faith is not needed to live a proper good life.