Natures wonders: bees cooperate just as ants do (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, September 20, 2018, 02:41 (2257 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

DAVID: Just like ant colonies, complete individual cooperation. It hasn't been studied but based on the ant studies I have presented, the indivivual bees act automatically to the stresses they experience.

dhw: How do you imagine all the different survival strategies of ants and bees originated? Preprogrammed by your God 3.8 billion years ago, or did your God come and teach the ants and bees what to do every time there was a new threat? Or is it possible (theistic version) that your God endowed them with the intelligence to work out their own strategies and pass them on to succeeding generations, just as humans do?>

Tony: I don't think that either David or myself have ever said that *everything* was preprogrammed. I know we have said that there is a mechanistic response, but the response systems are often generic. Danger!(invoke sympathetic nervous system response)Breeding Time(invoke breeding sequence)Magnetic Pull(null data; do nothing)A lot of things can be parented(programmatically) to lower level behaviors. He doesn't have to do as much programming as you think, because he can reuse code.

I have proposed that God could have pre-programmed all of evolution, or that He stepped in during the process and made adjustments, which I called dabbling. I've have never decided which one or both, but I feel God ran the entire process of evolution in some way. Certainly reusing code is reasonable and really obvious.

Tony: In https://www.quora.com/Are-bees-and-ants-close-on-the-evolutionary-tree It breaks down a list of creatures bearing one similar feature, a narrow waist. An because of this narrow waist, they MUST be related. And according to https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131008102557.htm Bees are more closely related to Ants on a genetic level than they are to wasps. Think about WHY. Instead of making blanket statements like this, why not compare genetics of species from all 3 groups of insects that chair behaviors or physical characteristics for similar genes, and then contrast those groups with the others for similarity.

Bees are bees. Ants are ants. Wasps are wasp. However, it is worth noting the similarities and differences between the species, because the closer you look, the more you realize that ancestral evolution between these three species is not really possible because the evolution's would have to be bi-directional, both in terms of anatomical and behavioral "adaptions".

Your point about genetic comparisons is on target. Phenotypes can fool, genes do not.