Natures wonders: ants farm fungus for food (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, April 23, 2017, 15:35 (2769 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: You wrote “Setting out helter-skelter simply leads to death”, and I pointed out that the original migrants would probably have set out helter-skelter and many would have died, but those who found the milkweed survived and passed on the information. I have now said repeatedly that no one knows how they found the physical strength to make the long journey, but I am not convinced that your God would have preprogrammed them or personally tutored them for the sake of producing humans.

You are tying together two concepts unreasonably. The monarchs know how to prepare for the journey, since we know how they do it, which source I feel is design by God. You don't know how the preparation was developed. And the second part we've covered the need for a balance of nature so evolution can proceed. That is a time issue.

dhw: I am not skipping the metamorphoses. I have no idea why four generations are needed before migration, but it is clear that the information IS passed on. What is your theory about the four changes?

These are miraculous changes engineered by God.

DAVID: Definite instructions of how to proceed with speciation, not twiddling over a messy knot.

dhw: But you do not confine your divine preprogramming/dabbling to speciation. You insist that only God could have designed all the natural wonders you have listed, including the weaverbird’s nest. That is one of the major disagreements between us. Either the bird designed it autonomously or God did. But no, according to you, God gave it “guidelines”.

You have forgotten the big 'if'. IF God gave an IM to organisms it would have guidelines. It is a theoretical consideration. There may be no IMs!

DAVID: No, it is clear to see everyone who is alive has to eat, from bacteria to humans. Why do you insist it is just for humans? My point is it took time for humans to evolve and the bush of life provides a balance of nature with a source of food, so everyone has food.

dhw: It is YOU who insist that it is just for humans! We do not need to be told that it took time for humans to evolve, or that every organism needs food, or that the bush of life provides food – though not for everyone, because sometimes there is not enough food and so some species die out. These are all self-evident observations. The disagreement is over YOUR insistence that God’s one and only purpose was the production of humans and EVERYTHING ELSE WAS RELATED TO THAT. Your words, not mine!

You are the one who doesn't seem to recognize all the eco-niches in the balance of nature. And humans are the ultimate purpose. Once you accept that God is purposeful, it all falls into place.