Natures wonders: bees cooperate just as ants do (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, September 20, 2018, 12:04 (2254 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Just like ant colonies, complete individual cooperation. It hasn't been studied but based on the ant studies I have presented, the indivivual bees act automatically to the stresses they experience.

dhw: How do you imagine all the different survival strategies of ants and bees originated? [...]

DAVID: Automatic activity is not intelligence is my point.

Of course it isn’t. And my point is that it takes intelligence to solve problems and invent new strategies. So I can only repeat my earlier question: did your God preprogramme every ant and bee strategy 3.8 billion years ago, or did he come down and teach them every time there was a new threat? Or did they work things out for themselves and pass them on to succeeding generations, just as humans do?

TONY: I don't think that either David or myself have ever said that *everything* was preprogrammed.

DAVID: I have proposed that God could have pre-programmed all of evolution, or that He stepped in during the process and made adjustments, which I called dabbling. I've have never decided which one or both, but I feel God ran the entire process of evolution in some way.

I’ll watch with interest as you discuss your differences! There is an ongoing discussion between David and myself concerning the intelligence of other organisms. I believe that when, for instance, ants build rafts, design cities, develop farming techniques, solve problems set for them by researchers, they use their intelligence. Once a system or technique or strategy has proved successful, it will be passed on. In fact some studies show ants teaching other ants. Even with this bee example, there seems to be intelligent cooperation between the bees, and some sacrifice themselves for the sake of the colony: “By climbing, individual bees have to shoulder a greater workload, but the bees seem willing to do this for the greater good of the swarm." I suggest they know what they’re doing.

TÓNY: In https://www.quora.com/Are-bees-and-ants-close-on-the-evolutionary-tree It breaks down a list of creatures bearing one similar feature, a narrow waist. An because of this narrow waist, they MUST be related. [...]
Bees are bees. Ants are ants. Wasps are wasp. However, it is worth noting the similarities and differences between the species, because the closer you look, the more you realize that ancestral evolution between these three species is not really possible because the evolution's would have to be bi-directional, both in terms of anatomical and behavioral "adaptions".

I don’t know why you have changed the subject to evolution. We are talking about intelligence versus automaticity. I can only say that in the dispute between common descent and separate creation of species, I consider the similarities between bees, wasps and ants to be evidence of common descent, and can well believe that diversification will have occurred over millions and millions of years and generations and changing environments. (See also under “Junk DNA".)