Natures wonders: making spider silk (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, August 26, 2014, 22:13 (1821 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Of course the inventive mechanism must have existed in the first living cells. Otherwise there would never have been evolution. The “equivalent to preplanning” is an equivocation. WHAT was “planned”?
DAVID: I can't expect you to remember all of the thoughts I have had as we discuss this. Remember that I think there is a built-in purposeful drive to create humans. That means an inventive mechanism must contain certain directional instructions. No equivocation.

That is part of your faith, but it doesn't explain what was planned. Nor does the rest of your post. Let me put it to you straight. Which of these seems most likely to you: 1) Your God planted instructions in the very first cells to make spiders and for spiders to make silk billions of years later? 2) Your God dabbled to make spiders and spider silk? 3) The inventive mechanism that your God put there in the beginning came up with the spider and the spider's silk on its own initiative (no preprogramming, no dabbling) from within other earlier organisms?

dhw: Yet again you are trying to separate the cells from the inventive mechanism, although you have admitted that the inventive mechanism is “implanted within the cells”. It's like saying humans don't invent anything. It's their brains that invent.
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DAVID: Agreed, cells without an IM can't change much of anything. Neither can humans invent much without huge brains. And where did the IM and human brains comes from, an intent of God. Cells did not invent their own IM. It came with life, itself a miraculous event.

There are three phases: 1) Life 2) Reproduction 3) Evolution. As I have stressed over and over again, my hypothesis only covers 3). I am trying to find a logical explanation for the innovations that have led from bacteria to humans. A few days ago, you acknowledged that you had serious doubts about all the innovations and wonders being preplanned from the beginning, and also about your God dabbling. That leaves us with an inventive mechanism within the cells, of which all organisms are made. Once you start faffing around with “a general directionality”, “implicit instruction”, “intelligent information guidelines”, you are removing the inventiveness and reverting to preprogramming. Perhaps your answer to my question about the spider and its silk will clear up some of the confusion.


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