slime mold decisions: begins to study loners (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, May 28, 2020, 15:25 (1638 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: If you think he dabbled with their genome in order to make them more intelligent than they were before they bit the leaves, that’s up to you. But we can explain all the natural wonders and strategies if (theistic version) we assume that your God endowed cells with intelligence right from the start, instead of this non-stop dabbling with the genome, and that the cell communities which make up every multicellular organism used their God-given intelligence to perform their wonders.

DAVID: Thank you for bringing in God to explain the intelligent actions you see. That way you avoid explaining how intelligence could arise naturally without Him.

dhw: I have always brought God in as the possible inventor of cellular intelligence! The disagreement between us is over your insistence that your God either preprogrammed or dabbled every single life form, lifestyle, strategy and natural wonder, whereas I propose that (theistic version) he gave them the intelligence to do their own designing.

As usual bringing in God when you have no explanation for a natural appearance of intelligence. You can't have it both ways.

DAVID: You miss the point yet again. Only repeated observations will lead to a recognition of cause and effect with bitten leaf and subsequent early flowering. And that requires a correlating conception by a mind capable of it.

dhw: Little Miss Bee remembered biting a leaf on a plant which flowered early. She mentioned it to her buddy bees, and they tried the trick on different plants, and it worked. Your comment on neutrinos involved understanding how things work. Bees would not sit there puzzling over why plants flower earlier. The trick works, and that’s it. Observation, memory and communication – all attributes of the intelligence which you think your God can advance with a dabble although it doesn’t actually exist.

You made up story is totally off the point: the two events weeks apart have to be correlated and need multiple observations to be a proven fact. You have your brain sitting in Miss Bee, but not acting as a human brain would have to act to see the relationship. Axiom: two events separated in time cannot be accepted as related without multiple examples recorded (mentaly or written). This is how observational science works.

Under “ants control aggression”:

dhw: If God exists, he might have dabbled with their genome each time in order to “advance their intelligence”, but I reckon it’s more likely that intelligence was built into the first cells and inherited in different forms by all the different combinations of cells that led to all the different life forms.

DAVID: Ants are not human.

dhw: We agree! Hence the bold above.

Sounds like my pre-programming thought.

DAVID: You still want oodles of intelligence everywhere, but please explain then how it arises naturally as life evolves naturally, no God ever involved.

dhw: Because (theistic version) God endowed the first cells with intelligence, and this was inherited in different forms by all the different combinations of cells that led to all the different life forms. As above and about to be repeated below.

DAVID: As an agnostic you keep explaining it both ways but only one way is correct, but that keeps you comfortable.. Intelligence always involves mental activity. Try being uncomfortable and pick a side.

dhw: What “both ways”? Instead of your God preprogramming or dabbling everything, I have him endowing the first cells with intelligence, and this was inherited in different forms….see bolds above.

Thank you for accepting pre-programming by God. Why not accept God? You are still having it both ways, because you have no explanation of intelligence without him.