Natures wonders: ants and other insects farm (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, May 19, 2020, 10:31 (1647 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Excellent. So you now agree that the bold may also apply to the evolution of species. Thank you.

DAVID: I simply view God as always watching and correcting courses if necessary.

dhw: That’s fine with me. You now accept that he could have set evolution in motion and left organisms simply to evolve, in contrast to their being specially designed.

DAVID: I don't know how you extrapolated my comment to this idea of yours. Evolution is a huge venture, with some minor processes of advancement on remote control and under watch while others are more complex and require hands on involvement.

Ugh, I might have guessed that you would try to row back on your statements:
May 3rd: “Once set in motion some events simply evolve, others are designed.”
May 7th: “Any evolved process God set in motion is under his control, since he can let it continue or stop it as He wishes.”

If he can set any process in motion and let it continue or stop it as He wishes, how can you possibly complain if I point out to you that He could therefore have set in motion the process of evolution and let it continue or stop it as He wishes? Why do you now try to reject this perfectly logical theistic explanation for the constantly changing bush of life?

DAVID: The fly trap is just part of the necessary econiches of life.

dhw: It is part of its particular econiche. All econiches are/were necessary for the life forms that depend/depended on them. I don’t know why you consider them all to have been necessary for the design of H. sapiens and his food.

DAVID: Where would his food come from if they didn't exist in large enough supply?

dhw: I am not referring just to “his” food. There were 3.X billion years of non-human life forms and their econiches, and you have no idea why they were necessary for the design of H. sapiens and his food supply.

DAVID: Are you still denying that we evolved from 3.8 bya. You never change. Why can't God chose His methodology of producing humans?

When have I ever denied that we, along with every other life form that ever existed, evolved from 3.8 bya? I accept the theory of evolution! And of course God could choose his method of evolving humans and every other life form that ever existed. How does that explain your belief that he designed 3.X billion years’ worth of non-human life forms and econiches for the sole purpose of designing H. sapiens and his econiches? Do please stop dodging the issue and at least accept with good grace the possibility, as you confirm above, that your God set the process in motion and let it continue while retaining the option to stop it and dabble.

From your “addendum”: "At one point, not that long ago, megafauna were everywhere. Humans killed off most, but this is an example where God might have allowed this to happen. I assume God allowed these giants to appear, perhaps thought better of it, let humans do part of the job for Him, and took care of the rest. This is still tight control over evolution as God is constantly watching."

As with your econiche argument, you insist on limiting yourself to the short time we humans have been around. What about the millions of life forms that lived and died long before humans were on the scene? May I please assume that you “assume God allowed these giants” and their econiches to appear? That is to say, he did not design them but let them “simply evolve”. And may I ask what kind of mechanism you think would have allowed them to “simply evolve”, as opposed to their being designed?