Natures wonders: Crocodile tools (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, December 15, 2013, 15:50 (3994 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I do not accept that intelligent cells are little computers. ..... The greater the complexity of interaction between these vast numbers of cells, the greater the intelligence.-Life is an emergent quality arsing from computerized cells. The emergence is caused by the intricate codes, now discovered to be at two different levels in DNA, protein manufacture (simple) and gene expression (very complex). All of this can only come from a planning intelligence, not chance as you agree. The information in the cell is the source of the intelligent responses. Cells are litle computers.
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> dhw: Because of your anthropocentric view of the universe, you are forced to argue that although corvid, canine and human intelligence emerges from the interaction between cells, it must also be linked to something else, but you don't know what. If there is a "don't know what", how do you know it's not present in different forms and degrees in ants and in cells? If there is no "don't know what", then you are stuck with intelligence as a property that emerges from biochemical interactions, ranging from bacteria to humans. Since you can never draw a clear dividing line between what seems intelligent and what is intelligent, your insistence on cellular, bacterial and formic automatism is nothing but assumption.-I have described a clear line which you will not accept. the "don't know what" is the emergence of life from the information in the cell, which cannnot have arisen by chance. There is a cause
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> *****
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> dhw;As usual, I am several hours behind in these exchanges. A warm welcome back to Matt, who under "Buddhism and Karma" has captured the essence of the argument:
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> MATT: I'm saying that the intelligent behaviour of ants isn't an illusion of intelligence, but that it is actually intelligence. And that if you accept the argument that this intelligence is ultimately the result of gene expression contained within the DNA of the individuals of a colony, then you necessarily accept an identical argument for the human brain. That's because neurons are no less automatons than the individuals of an ant colony.
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> dhw: Thank you.-I given my answer earlier. Neurons are also computers: intellience and consciousness are emergent, a word which covers we don't know how!