Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, January 11, 2021, 10:47 (1200 days ago) @ David Turell

Now that we have agreed on a possible compromise between dualism and materialism, we have left Egnor completely. This exchange should really be part of the “Miscellany” thread, which covers various aspects of evolution, but it’s too long to put in there.

dhw: I wonder how many evolutionary biologists maintain that God changed pre-whale legs into fins before they entered the water, or that current animals adapt in anticipation of conditions that do not yet exist. I hope you will never attempt to present your theory to a gathering of evolutionary biologists or indeed to any gathering of scientists of any ilk.

DAVID: The ilk I represent is the ID ilk, full of qualified scientists that I quote here. Surprise!! They believe everything is designed. I wish you would read their books.

dhw: You have switched from your theory that your God designed changes IN ANTICIPATION of changing conditions to the general theory of design. I have no problem with the design theory as such, and you know it! The problem is with your belief that your God personally preprogrammed or dabbled every life form, econiche, natural wonder etc., and that he did so in advance of requirements – e.g. he turned pre-whale legs into fins before whales entered the water – and that every single design was part of his one and only goal of evolving [=directly designing] humans.” Unfortunately it becomes impossible to avoid raising this subject again when you so radically distort my objections to your theory of evolution. Even you have told us that your ID folks try to avoid mentioning God!

DAVID: I have a firm belief God is the designer. The ID folks just don't mention Him by name as the designer, but since mostly they are devout Christians, the inference is obvious. Some of the fellows at Discovery Institute are devout Jews!!! You admit to the need for design. That logically requires a designing mind, a step you are not able to take, logical as it is.

For the umpteenth time, I do NOT have a problem with the design argument! Why do you keep forcing me to repeat what I DO have a problem with? How many of your ID scientists claim that your/their God changed pre-whale legs into fins before the pre-whales entered the water, and that your/their God preprogrammed or directly dabbled every single life form, econiche, natural wonder etc. in life’s history, 99% of which had no connection with humans although all of them were part of your/their God’s one and only goal of evolving [= directly designing] humans? Please don’t restart the game of picking on individual premises. It is the combination of premises that makes no sense – hence your acknowledgement that you have no idea why your God would have chosen your version of his method to fulfil your version of his purpose. However, that is what you believe, and we agreed to leave it at that. Let’s stick to that agreement.