Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE (More) (Introduction)

by David Turell , Monday, December 21, 2020, 18:34 (1433 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: We have gone round and round with this discussion about dualism for years, and I have told you constantly our views of dualism are totally different. You envision an immaterial soul that dictates thoughts to a material brain, and I view the self/soul as having to use the circuits of the brain to create/form/develop thoughts.

dhw: There is no difference at all between us. We agree completely that the soul uses the brain to develop its thoughts. You simply keep on and on glossing over the nature of the use. So yet again: the dualist’s immaterial soul resides within the material brain, is the thinking part of the self, uses the brain to collect information, analyses it, and then “dictates” its thoughts to the brain so that the brain can mobilize its material means of giving material expression to those thoughts. None of this contradicts anything in your statement above.

The bold is totally opposite to my theory. The soul cannot dictate to the brain. The soul can only form thought by entering the brain's circuits and using them to FORM its thoughts. The brain then broadcasts them as words in the mind, as typed, spoken, or handwritten. This is our vast difference and how Egnor sees it.

DAVID: That is exactly what my body tells me is happening, and therefore I don't think your separation concept is valid and does not exist as presented by the facts we know. Therefore sick brain, sick thoughts and the self/soul cannot change it, stop it, or even recognize the disparities.

dhw: There is no separation concept. They live and work together, performing their different functions. Your “therefore” is totally unconnected with the rest of the argument. Where do the sick thoughts come from, if they don’t come from the soul? Back we go to your statement that the soul “receives incorrect analytic thought”. How can the "analyzer" receive the analysis? From what? It can only come from the brain! But when I pointed out the materialistic implications (i.e. the brain does the thinking), you cried: “No, no, no!!! The soul uses the brain’s networks to do the analysis. The soul is the analyzer, the brain its tool.”[/color] If the brain is only the tool, the dualist’s soul should be able to recognize the falseness of the information given to it by the dualist’s sick brain, which does not formulate any thoughts.

Again totally disconnecting the soul from using the brain's circuits to form thought. Totally wrong. You keep ignoring the fact that the soul, in using the circuits produces analysis and thought only through their use. But if they are sick the soul can only produce sick thought and will not realize it. The colored part is is totally misinterpreted by your initial concepts which get in the way of what Egnor and I present. The soul, using the brain as a tool for thought can only accept what the tool gives it. Using sick circuits gives the soul sick results as sick thoughts, and the soul in using the brain circuits to analyze the resulting thoughts, the soul will not recognize the wrong results from its attempts to think. Use psychopath again to understand this. The psychopath has a sick brain and cannot understand why we all think him wrong. What is your soul? It is your living essence using your brain to form thought, write children's book and plays, an ability your particular brain offers you to use. Your brain is so plastic you may have manipulated it to do that work for you, but the math savant child was given that brain at birth. You can only work with the currently existing brain. The criminal insanity defense accepts my position in court. The thought in green at the end of your statement removes that defense. The whole discussion in this paragraph shows why.