A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire (Introduction)

by romansh , Saturday, September 26, 2015, 18:24 (3346 days ago) @ dhw

But my question is why Romansh objects to the inclusion of consciousness in the definition. For the life of me, I cannot see how free will (if it exists) can come into play unless one is conscious of what is to be chosen/decided, what are the options, what are the restrictions and what may be the future consequences.
I don't object to including consciousness in the definition, though I do think it is unnecessary and it leads us to go round in circles.-What I do object to is leaving cause and effect out of the definition. This leads to all our circular arguments.-It leads to the contradictory statements like:
>> dhw at different times - we do not have conscious control of our decisions ... I do have conscious control of my decisions. 
We then go into deeper nonsense like both statements are true but it depends on one's point of view.-I would argue strongly that one or both points of view must be wrong!-I think Tony summarized my position.