A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire (Introduction)

by romansh , Sunday, September 06, 2015, 20:21 (3149 days ago) @ David Turell


> > > David: We have elaborated at length before. Of course my decisions are based on previous experience and current events. What are you hunting for?
> > Romansh: Some recognition that our thoughts/decisions or wills are not free.
> I don't accept that position.
Funnily enough this doe not surprise me one bit.-> > Romansh: I will ask my question again:
> > >>.... not to control our thoughts or actions.
> > > Independent processes? Which processes are these?> 
> > Exactly in what narrow sense are these processes independent?
> I don't know how much clearer I can be. The brain has helpful processes (which you have mentioned) that allow us to use a biological machine to understand reality. we do not control these processes, but they do not act to form our opinions, thoughts and actions.
Do you realize you just denied cause and effect with your denial above?
You could be clearer by painting a more coherent picture.-> > Romansh: In what sense are our thoughts/wills independent?
> Because I create them, they are mine independently. I equate free will and intentionality.
Again what is this "I" and are your intentions independent of cause? We keep dancing around this. But it is plain to pretty much everyone following this you think of yourself as independent of cause somehow.
> > Do you actually think our eye movements are independent of cause? 
> No, they are caused by the brain as built-in mechanisms to help us see reality properly. The brain is not a digital camera. What caused the brain to develop this ability is the underlying discussion of this website.
Then why cite them as an example being independent of cause?-From a free will aspect I care little what caused our wills. It is more that they were caused and the resulting implications.-And as to the underlying discussion for this website I will leave that to dhw and you. I care little about god or gods. I am no more an aphilatelist than I am an atheist. Though I am lapsed numismatician that has habit of collecting coins when I am abroad.