Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof (Introduction)

by David Turell , Tuesday, December 08, 2020, 22:56 (1446 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: The thinking soul uses the brain to acquire information, thinks about the information, and then directs the brain to implement its thoughts. You keep agreeing with me as if you were disagreeing with me!

DAVID: What you always seem to slide over is how the soul thinks. It must use the brain circuits to formulate any thought during life with a useful normal brain. It is the bold I created above that is non-descript to me.

dhw: Round and round we go. Yes, the dualist’s brain gathers information and passes it on to the dualist’s soul. The brain doesn’t think. What is “non-descript” in the statement that the soul thinks about the information?...In a seizure (petit mal, because the grand mal loses consciousness altogether), the dualist’s brain sends sick information to the dualist’s soul. So why doesn’t the dualist’s soul say, “Nah, something weird going on here”? Instead, it says nothing. Why? And why, when the seizure is over, does the soul not remember ever having had such thoughts or even receiving such information?

You don't realize it but you've answered yourself. In seizures the brain is sick and the soul can't do anything!!! When it is over the person/soul can realize what just happened. Seizures remove consciousness!! That is where the soul resides

DAVID: The material brain according to materialists produces concepts by itself.

dhw: Yes, all by itself it gathers information, processes and thinks about it, forms its concepts, decisions, conclusions, opinions etc., and then expresses them by activating its material means of expression.

DAVID: Just as seizures move muscles, if the frontal cortex has a self-created thought available before a seizure, why doesn't it appear? Just like a memorized smell of ocean I've mentioned.

dhw: Why “before a seizure”? The whole problem is what happens DURING a seizure. And the obvious conclusion is that if there is no “thought” during the brain’s period of sickness, but “thought” returns when the brain’s sickness is over, the brain must be the source of thought!

That is the point. If the brain thought formulation is revealed, if present just prior to seizure, why can't the brain formulate one during seizure? During seizure the brain is functional, with muscle movement, breathing, etc. Why isn't thought present? It never is. Consciousness is inoperative.

DAVID: Normal thinking can only come from a normal brain. […] A true psychopath cannot socialize properly because his brain makes him that way. From a human standpoint, we mustn't kill him for his serial murders, but institutionalize him for life. He can't help what he is.

dhw: You’ve got it. It is the materialist’s brain that does the thinking, draws the conclusions, makes the decisions, and dictates the actions. The psychopath can’t help what he is. He has no free will. He is not responsible for the actions his brain makes him commit. “Normal thinking can only come from a normal brain.” There is no place or function for a “soul” in this process, and hence seizures offer no grounds for believing there is such a thing.

All backward as usual. A soul cannot be normal if the brain is abnormal. My immaterial self has an immaterial soul and an immaterial consciousness, and I myself, use my brain to think. I am trapped with it.

Xxxxxxx

Free will: continuity of self

DAVID: Shown in this study:
https://mindmatters.ai/2020/12/do-we-really-remain-the-same-person-throughout-our-lives/

QUOTES: "DO WE REALLY REMAIN THE SAME PERSON THROUGHOUT OUR LIVES? Or is the continuity of our selves just an illusion?"

"So even though our bodies are almost entirely changed, both in appearance and composition from what they were decades ago, we feel the same and recognize images of ourselves almost instantly. That’s a good argument for the existence of a self that goes beyond mere matter". (DAVID’s bold)

DAVID: The 'self' is immaterial and is with us all during life. I view it the same as the soul.

dhw: Organic life has feelings and forms of consciousness that inorganic objects (we assume) do not have, but to my knowledge, the ONLY evidence we have of a self that goes beyond mere matter is psychic experiences (which in my view are to be taken seriously - I remain agnostic). But even then, if the self does NOT live on after death, it is obvious that there is no such thing as an immaterial self that “goes beyond” mere matter. Matter then has to be the generator of life, consciousness and self.

All of this denies the evidence in NDE's. You are are same guy who had malaria and found a wife.