Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 14:59 (1227 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: Are there thoughts or aren’t there, and what thinks them? Quotes from you: “sick brain can only produce sick thoughts”; “sick brain equals sick thoughts”; “normal thinking can only come from a normal brain”. All suggesting that the brain is the source of thought (= materialism).

DAVID: The soul using the brain networks is the source of thought.

dhw: Agreed. The dualist’s soul uses the brain for information and implementation. The brain does not produce the thoughts.

The soul produces thought by using the brain's networks. The brain can never do it on its own.

DAVID: The brain cannot think without the soul driving it. […]

dhw: And back you go to your thinking brain! The dualist’s brain doesn’t think! The soul does the thinking!

Exactly, using the brain.

dhw: You now have the soul making the brain think. (In dualism, one would expect the brain’s passing of information to make the soul think.)

DAVID: That is your contrary form of dualism to mine. I/ living soul drive my brain to think.

dhw: So what does the dualist's brain think about? More to the point, what processes the information provided by the brain, and what draws conclusions/makes decisions etc.?

Whatever the soul wants/has it do. The soul thinks only by using the brain.

DAVID: All of this is from your backward view of my dualism. The analysis is performed by the soul using the brain networks.

dhw: But that is not what you wrote! I’ve bolded it: “the soul will only receive…incorrect analytic thought.” And over and over again you talk of the brain thinking.

Only driven by the soul.

DAVID: The soul's role is to drive thinking in the brain. The brain does not think unless the soul wishes to think.

dhw" What does this mean? You seem to be saying that the soul tells the brain to analyse all the information and come to a conclusion or decision! What else is there for it to think about?

The brain doesn't analyze anything without the soul using the brain to do it.

dhw: […] although we know that changes to the brain can cause changes in thought patterns (materialism), we also know that changes in thought patterns can change the brain. Immaterial thoughts, emotions, new experiences, learning etc. can release chemicals or result in new connections. This known fact does not provide evidence for either theory: the immaterial factors may be the product of a soul, or it may be that the brain produces them. We don’t know the source of consciousness, and so we don’t know the source of our thinking.

DAVID: You are complicating the issue. I don't have to know the source for consciousness to know I am conscious. I am a living soul who uses my brain to think. My brain never tells me what to think.

dhw: But you have told us that you/your soul tells the brain to think!

The soul forms thoughts using the brain, a great difference.

dhw: What I said is we know the brain changes thought, and thought changes the brain, so we can’t know from this whether the source of thought/ consciousness is soul or brain.

My brain thinks only what I/soul want to think. Only a sick brain can change desired thought the soul wishes to make..

DAVID: And finally, your view of this dualism theory is diametrically opposed to mine.

dhw: No it isn’t. I have presented both sides of the argument, and remain neutral. What I have criticized is that you continually ignore the question of what the dualist's soul uses the brain for, and you present the case for materialism by insisting that the brain thinks – even to the point of analysing the information it gathers.

I totally reject materialism. The soul thinks by using the brain. The brain cannot think without a soul driving it. That should be quite clear.