Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, December 13, 2020, 21:41 (1441 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: In order for the soul to create a thought it enters the brain networks and uses those networks to actually form the complete thought.

dhw: Earlier you accused me of separating the soul from the brain. Now you have it entering the brain! Where was it before, then? And HOW else does it “use” the networks of the brain, in addition to processing the information which the brain has given it, and then to giving material expression to its thoughts, as explained above? This is the question you continually avoid answering.

I've constantly answered and you refuse to accept it. The soul must actively use its brain networks to form a thought. It doesn't dictate to the brain as you imply.

DAVID: Without that attachment no thoughts can form...

dhw: Of course the soul can’t form a thought if it doesn’t have something to think about!

It can't think about anything unless it is actively engaged with the brain networks.

DAVID: ...and because of that required attachment, if the brain is sick the soul can only have sick thoughts and the soul can't even realize they are sick, since the soul must use those circuits to create and to interpret what is created.

dhw: That means the soul is incapable of thinking about the information passed on to it by the brain if the information is false!

Exactly!!! It is forced to accept the false information or thinking.

dhw: You complain that “uses the brain to express the thought” is imprecise! What does your last comment mean? Circuits = the material brain. What does the soul create? It uses the (circuits of) the brain to gather information concerning which it creates its thoughts! It doesn’t interpret its thoughts (“what is created”); it has created its thoughts by interpreting the information given to it by the brain. And if it thinks the information is wrong, it will challenge that information.

This is you separatist concept, nothing like how I keep telling you I view it. The bold is where you are entirely wrong. The psychopath does not know He is a psychopath. From his standpoint he is normal. The soul is completely required to use its brain to create its thoughts, and must accept bad information if it is given. Sick brain always results in sick thinking and the soul is trapped because of the requirement to use brain networks for its thinking and understanding what is transpiring.

DAVID: Thus a sick brain can only produce sick thoughts which the soul cannot prevent from appearing in sick form.

dhw: […] Is the dualist’s soul the thinking, decision-making part of the self or isn’t it?

DAVID: It is the driver of thoughts and decisions, but it must be fully attached to the brain circuits which are used to create and form thoughts under the soul's direction/initiation. One does not work without the other...

dhw: Again trying to gloss over HOW the soul “uses” the brain circuits. See above.

No glossing. An exact description of how the soul is bound to use the brain circuits to create thoughts/concepts

DAVID: ...which is why sick brain equals sick thoughts, and the soul can't stop or correct them.

dhw: But the function of the soul is to process the information given to it by the brain. If the information is false, no matter what the cause, an immaterial soul should be able to think about it and even detect its falseness. Where do you draw the line between false information and sick information?

To answer the question the soul must accept false and sick information. The living soul can only create correct thoughts as its brain allows. Sick brain, sick thoughts. Here again you have separated the soul from its brain. The psychopath does not know he is sick. He may recognize he is breaking rules the rest of us have set up, but her doesn't care and can't change himself. The colored suggestion cannot happen. The immortal soul is tied to the normal or sick brain and trapped with the result of the brain's illness. Exactly why we institutionalize and not kill psychopaths. They have no ethical controls.