A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, November 12, 2015, 21:52 (3078 days ago) @ romansh

dhw: When we last corresponded on this issue, six weeks ago, I suggested that “whether we think we have what is known as “free will” ....depends on how we define the term”. Since I accept that your definition and your cause-and-effect approach eliminate free will, and since for you the compatibilist approach and my identity approach are rabbit holes that miss the point completely (the point presumably being that nothing is independent of cause and effect, the environment and the universe), I really think this discussion has now run its circular course-DAVID: I would have to fully agree, having followed this debate. Anything can be defined into or out of contention. To each his own.-ROMANSH: If this is true then all conversations here are pointless David.-“The ability to act or make choices independently of the environment and the universe” or “independently of cause” defines free will out of existence. I have offered a different definition (“the ability to make conscious choices within given constraints”, which you have misrepresented by equating compatibilist “coercion” with “given constraints” - not the same thing at all), but for you any other definition is inaccurate. Cause and effect is your chosen approach, and you reject other approaches as irrelevant. And so of course this conversation is pointless. I can only say, yes, Rom, according to your definition and your approach, there is no such thing as free will. According to my definition, you may be right, but it also allows for other approaches in defence of free will. The subjects of identity, the illusion of self, compatibilism and incompatibilism, consciousness have all been covered in the discussions 30 August - 28 September, which led to the same conclusion.