A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire (Introduction)

by David Turell , Monday, August 31, 2015, 00:43 (3373 days ago) @ romansh

Romansh" When I first started playing the free will game on the AgnosticWeb, here a few years ago I wanted to define free will in terms similar to something like ... the ability to act or make choices independently of the environment. You and dhw insisted on putting in a consciousness component. I understand why, but this definitely causes a quagmire of confusion.-? 'choices independent of environment' is confusing without explanation. Do you mean independent of the environment of the brain? 
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> Romansh:In fact my definition has a lower standard for meeting the free will requirement. We could meet it either consciously or not. So several years later we still play the same dance around what is or is not consciousness.-As for consciousness, I use mine to consider my choices to perform at my will. And yes it certainly has a sense of purposeful intentionality. I feel the two, free will and consciousness, are intimately related. 
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> Romansh: The question remains is our will independent of cause? -Are you implying there is no cause and effect relationship to my creation of free will decisions? I feel there is. -> Romansh: This applies to our unconscious and our supposedly conscious wills. Does consciousness suspend the laws of physics? In the sense that the laws of physics no longer describe brain activity and the brain/mind is an independent agent.-I wouldn't raise the issues of unconscious and subconscious activity. Freudian psychiatry is passing away. It makes much more sense to look at the sources of personality traits and defense mechanisms. These comes from the 'history' you referred to in another entry preceding this one. We all make our own personality and thought patterns leading to free will intentionality from teachings, past experiences and trial and error. -As for the source of consciousness I don't know which laws of physics to suspend. If the brain is a receiver, laws of physics are active. If consciousness is due to quantum activity in the brain, laws still apply. The presence of the brain seems to be required except in the NDE episodes, where it appears a functional brain is not required. 
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> Romansh: If this is what believers of free will believe, then the ball is firmly in their court to demonstrate corroborating evidence.-The evidence is the NDE experiences and research into them by several M.D.s starting in the 1960's and ongoing today, notwithstanding rather pitiful refutations by Blackmore in 1993. I admit we are still confused about consciousness since we have no definite answers, clearly expressed by Nagel.