Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, December 17, 2020, 20:46 (1437 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The brain cannot think without the soul driving it. […]

dhw: Back you go to your thinking brain! The dualist’s brain doesn’t think! The soul does the thinking!

DAVID: Exactly, using the brain.

dhw: You’ve got it. The soul does the thinking, and uses the brain for information and material implementation/expression. That should be the end of this discussion. But still you go on and on telling us that the brain thinks:

DAVID: Whatever the soul wants/has it do. The soul thinks only by using the brain.

dhw: Yes, the dualist's soul thinks by using the brain, as above. The soul does not drive the brain to think!

Stated another way: only the soul can create and drive thought in the brain. The soul must use the brain networks to think. The brain can never create thought on its own. It provides sensory information and memorized information.

DAVID: The analysis is performed by the soul using the brain networks.

dhw: But that is not what you wrote! I’ve bolded it: “the soul will only receive…incorrect analytic thought.” And over and over again you talk of the brain thinking.

DAVID: Only driven by the soul.

dhw: Which means the soul drives the brain to do the analysing, which the soul then “receives”. But the dualist’s soul is supposed to do the analysing!

No,no,no!!! The soul uses the brain's networks to do the analysis. The soul is the analyzer, the brain its tool.

DAVID: The soul forms thoughts using the brain, a great difference.

dhw: It’s an enormous difference. So please stop telling us that the soul tells the brain to think! The dualist’s brain does not do the thinking!

The soul uses the brain as its machine to create thought. The brain cannot think on its own.

dhw: What I said is we know the brain changes thought, and thought changes the brain, so we can’t know from this whether the source of thought/ consciousness is soul or brain.

DAVID: My brain thinks only what I/soul want to think. Only a sick brain can change desired thought the soul wishes to make.

dhw: The dualist's brain doesn’t think. Full stop. Your comment totally misses the point I am making here, which is that the two-way process makes it impossible to judge whether the source of consciousness is a soul or the brain.

A sick brain will makes the reasonable thoughts by the soul sick thoughts. The soul has no control about the end product!!! Consciousness is beside the point. we don't know what makes it arise. Let's just stick to what runs the brain.

DAVID: And finally, your view of this dualism theory is diametrically opposed to mine.

dhw: No it isn’t. I have presented both sides of the argument, and remain neutral. What I have criticized is that you continually ignore the question of what the dualist's soul uses the brain for, and you present the case for materialism by insisting that the brain thinks – even to the point of analysing the information it gathers.

DAVID: I totally reject materialism. The soul thinks by using the brain. The brain cannot think without a soul driving it. That should be quite clear.

dhw: Yes, the soul thinks by using the brain. No, the soul does not drive the brain to think, because the brain does not think, as you keep agreeing and then disagreeing. The dualist’s soul uses the dualist’s brain for information and material implementation/ expression of the soul’s thoughts. Materialists argue that the brain does it all, including the thinking. Whenever you have the brain thinking, you are supporting materialism. (I'd better repeat that I remain neutral on the subject).

One last time, the soul creates thought using the brain networks, but in life the soul cannot think without a functional brain.