Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, December 28, 2020, 08:41 (1208 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: [...] Non-functioning brain, no thought possible during life. Changed brain function by chemicals, by brain damage, or by lacking proper functioning circuits for the development of a conscience will all result in improper thought development. Summary: The brain is my tool to create thought. My sick brain will result in me having sick thoughts that I do not want to have, but I won't realize it in severe cases of sick brain (psychopath)

dhw: You keep using the pronoun “I”, which for the dualist consists of mind/soul and body/brain. By yet again glossing over the different functions of soul and brain, you manage to state obvious truths.

In fact all of the above preceding your summary describes the materialist interpretation of the thought process!

dhw: Of course the only way a thought can appear is if you think! Of course the dualist’s soul uses the brain – to gather information and to give material expression to its thoughts –

DAVID: This is the point where I question your fixed repeated statement in bold. Tell me how the soul uses the brain to create thought. What is the exact mechanism? I've told you my view. The soul must use the brain networks as its formative tool.

Nobody knows the “exact mechanism” that gives rise to consciousness and thought! You admit this later on: “We all recognize we do not know how an immaterial consciousness drives a material brain but it does.” Your view merely restates that the soul uses the brain, and yet again you omit to tell us what the soul uses the brain for!

dhw: “Non-functioning brain, no thought possible” is the whole basis of the materialist’s case. And of course the sick brain will result in sick thoughts – also implying that the brain is the source of thought.

DAVID: Of course the brain is the terminal material source of thought as driven by a soul employing the circuits to create the thought. Without the circuits in functional action the soul cannot think. Immaterial living soul, living material brain working together.

More muddy waters. Yes, the dualist’s soul “employs the circuits to create the thought” or uses the brain, as I have described. What is the “terminal material source of thought”? In plain language: the beginning of the dualistic process is information supplied by the non-thinking brain, the soul then translates the information into meaningful thought, and the end is the soul instructing the brain to give material expression to its thoughts. What is your objection?

dhw: There is nothing in the above that supports the case for a soul! And this is epitomized by two of your statements: the “soul” receives “incorrect analytic thought” from the brain, and the psychopath’s brain is unable to form a correct judgement. There is no role for the soul if the brain does the analyzing and the judging!

DAVID: Remember I am my soul. My brain does nothing unless I use it to think. A brain cannot think by itself.

Yes, in dualism you are your soul, and your soul uses the brain as bolded above and repeated ad nauseam. The dualist’s brain can’t think for itself, because that is the function of the soul. And that is why it is absurd for a dualist to make the two bolded statements above.

DAVID: No one can think normally with a sick brain, one not functioning normally. The brain is our tool for thought. Broke tool, broke thought. […]

dhw: The statement that no one can think normally with a sick brain summarizes the case for materialism. The “broke” brain or thinking mechanism – whether psychopathic, epileptic, drugged or drunk – cannot think properly.

DAVID: […] A living unconscious brain is not able to allow thought to be formed. A conscious soul must be active for thought to appear and as that soul enters the brain networks and forms thought using them.

A materialist would say an unconscious brain cannot think. Revive the unconscious brain, and it can think. The reviving medication/operation/weaning/sobering up works on the brain.

DAVID: Nothing could be clearer. We all recognize we do not know how an immaterial consciousness drives a material brain but it does. Only I can form my thoughts using my immaterial consciousness to drive my material brain. Only dualism applies. My immaterial consciousness is my soul. It uses my living brain to think and after death it can form immaterial thought on its own.

Nobody knows the source of consciousness and hence of thought. The open question is whether “I” consist of mind/soul and body/brain, or just body and brain. The dualist’s soul uses the brain, and part of the materialist’s brain uses other parts of the brain. The diseased/cured brain clearly favours materialism, as above, and as epitomized by your bolded statements concerning the diseased brain’s incorrect analytic thought and inability to form a correct judgement. However, psychic experiences such as NDEs, support the theory that there is a soul which CAN think independently of the brain. Hence my own neutrality on the subject.