A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, September 06, 2015, 22:44 (3147 days ago) @ romansh

Romansh: I will ask my question again:
> > > >>.... not to control our thoughts or actions.
> > > > Independent processes? Which processes are these?> 
> > > Exactly in what narrow sense are these processes independent?-> > David: I don't know how much clearer I can be. The brain has helpful processes (which you have mentioned) that allow us to use a biological machine to understand reality. we do not control these processes, but they do not act to form our opinions, thoughts and actions.-> Romansh: Do you realize you just denied cause and effect with your denial above?
> You could be clearer by painting a more coherent picture.-No I don't realize that. Please explain.-> 
> > > Romansh: In what sense are our thoughts/wills independent?
> > David: Because I create them, they are mine independently. I equate free will and intentionality.-> Again what is this "I" and are your intentions independent of cause? We keep dancing around this. But it is plain to pretty much everyone following this you think of yourself as independent of cause somehow.-What am 'I' caused by that you keep referring to?-
> > > Romansh: Do you actually think our eye movements are independent of cause? 
> > David: No, they are caused by the brain as built-in mechanisms to help us see reality properly. The brain is not a digital camera. What caused the brain to develop this ability is the underlying discussion of this website.-> Romansh: Then why cite them as an example being independent of cause?-They are not independent of cause. I said the brain caused them independent of my input.
> 
> Romansh: From a free will aspect I care little what caused our wills. It is more that they were caused and the resulting implications.
> 
> And as to the underlying discussion for this website I will leave that to dhw and you. I care little about god or gods. I am no more an aphilatelist than I am an atheist. Though I am lapsed numismatician that has habit of collecting coins when I am abroad.-No longer or never a stamp collector?

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        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - David Turell, 2020-12-16, 15:08
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - dhw, 2020-12-17, 11:11
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - David Turell, 2020-12-17, 21:44
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART TWO - dhw, 2020-12-18, 10:52
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART TWO - David Turell, 2020-12-18, 14:36
        
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - David Turell, 2020-12-15, 17:51
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - dhw, 2020-12-16, 10:12
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - David Turell, 2020-12-16, 14:59
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - dhw, 2020-12-17, 11:02
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - David Turell, 2020-12-17, 20:46
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-18, 10:48
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-18, 14:29
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-19, 08:27
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-19, 16:05
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-20, 09:39
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-20, 21:03
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE (More) - David Turell, 2020-12-20, 21:26
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE (More) - dhw, 2020-12-21, 12:21
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE (More) - David Turell, 2020-12-21, 18:34
        
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-21, 12:11
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-21, 15:48
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-22, 11:14
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-22, 18:18
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-23, 11:30
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-23, 13:26
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-24, 10:09
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-24, 21:57
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-26, 11:26
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-26, 23:21
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-27, 11:22
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-27, 15:09
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-28, 08:41
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-28, 13:39
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-29, 09:24
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-30, 02:41
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-30, 12:11
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2020-12-30, 19:11
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2020-12-31, 09:00
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-01, 00:11
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-01, 04:49
        
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-01, 11:15
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-01, 16:06
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-02, 09:26
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-02, 15:24
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-03, 11:19
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-03, 14:58
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-04, 09:15
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-04, 17:54
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-05, 11:38
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-05, 14:03
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-06, 09:02
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-06, 14:57
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-07, 09:18
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-07, 14:38
        Free Will: another view of consciousness - David Turell, 2021-01-07, 14:59
        
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-08, 11:04
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-08, 15:15
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-09, 08:47
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-09, 19:31
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-10, 09:39
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-10, 19:03
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-11, 10:47
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-11, 15:01
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-12, 09:13
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-12, 21:12
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-13, 09:10
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - David Turell, 2021-01-13, 18:40
        Free Will: Egnor shows neurological proof - PART ONE - dhw, 2021-01-14, 09:27
        
        Free Will: not rejected, redefined - David Turell, 2022-05-11, 15:46
        Free Will: not rejected, redefined - dhw, 2022-05-12, 11:20
        Free Will: not rejected, redefined - David Turell, 2022-05-12, 15:00
        
        Free Will: Egnor shows true Libet conclusions - David Turell, 2021-02-08, 14:32
        
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - romansh, 2015-11-14, 18:15
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - dhw, 2015-11-15, 13:51
        
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - David Turell, 2015-11-13, 02:37
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - romansh, 2015-11-13, 04:14
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - David Turell, 2015-11-13, 15:58
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - romansh, 2015-11-14, 04:20
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - David Turell, 2015-11-14, 05:44
        
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - romansh, 2015-11-11, 21:14
        
        A Sense of Free Will: lucid dreaming - David Turell, 2023-08-27, 17:39
        
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - romansh, 2015-09-20, 20:47
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - dhw, 2015-09-21, 19:40
        
        A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire - David Turell, 2015-09-06, 18:17
        Free Will: Top down or bottom up - David Turell, 2016-01-14, 02:02
        Free Will: Egnor again - David Turell, 2023-03-13, 17:43

AgnosticWeb.com

A Sense of Free Will: the consciousness quagmire (Introduction)