dhw: big brain evolution:comparing chimp and brain organoids (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 16:05 (534 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The fact that I do not/can't know God's exact thought does not make my conclusions illogical. God's choice is His alone.

dhw: Of course your God, if he exists, chose his own method of achieving his own purpose. The fact that you have no idea why he might have chosen the method you attribute to him to achieve the purpose you attribute to him is a clear indication that there is no conceivable logic behind your combination of attributions.

You are demanding knowledge of God's mind I cannot have. Your complaint is totally illogical. Read your own first sentence.

DAVID: As for 'evolving everything', evolution is a direct complexification of previous simple structures. The word 'simple' refers to a simple concept of evolution, but you are correct, the steps are, at times, very complex.

dhw: Yes, indeed, and the more non-sapiens complexities your God specially designed, the less logical your fixed beliefs become.

But you've agreed God has the right to choose to use evolution over direct creation.

dhw: Once more, my objections are to your personal interpretation of your God’s motives and purposes. And how can you possibly insist that you know God’s choices, can’t understand them, but find them logical?

I simply accept God chose to evolve His purpose or purposes. You've agreed He has that right.
You simply object to my opinion that God's major purpose was human minds.

DAVID: Undoubtedly God followed His plan which included a food supply until He evolved humans. You are the one questioning it, implying it is not logical.

dhw: So how does that invalidate the proposal that he didn’t know how to achieve the goal you attribute to him, and therefore had to keep experimenting until he worked it out – as opposed to “I have no idea why God chose to evolve humans over time”?

We've discussed possible reasons for God choosing evolution over direct creation ad nauseum. We simply cannot know why He chose the method He chose.

Under "...updated Adler:)
QUOTE: "What other species builds civilizations, records history, creates art, makes music, thinks abstractly, communicates in language, envisions and fabricates machinery, improves life through science and engineering, or explores the deeper truths found in philosophy and religion? What other species can ponder “seizing control” of its own evolution, as transhumanists do? Which has true freedom? Not a one.”

DAVID: In answering the philosophy of Transhumanism he is echoing Adler's main point .

dhw: For me, all the above is blindingly obvious – yes, we are unique in our abilities. I couldn’t care less about Transhumanism. What bothers me is the assumption that our uniqueness somehow proves the existence of an unknown, sourceless mind you call God, proves that we were your God’s sole purpose from the beginning, and proves that the whole history of life extant and extinct was geared to this single purpose.

This is why you persist in agnosticism which is your right. You still accept the possibility that we are here by chance mechanisms, producing the extraordinary result of 'us'.

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