Big brain evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, January 24, 2018, 14:28 (1011 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I’m sorry that you cannot see the contradiction between your belief that the SOUL is responsible for ideas, but pre-sapiens souls could not have had new ideas until the brain had already expanded enough to implement them.

DAVID: I view a completely new idea as a discreet event with no antecedent. The s/s/c doesn't come to the pre-homo or homo with preconceived notions. The interaction of the living human with his s/s/c is mediated through his living brain (material) and his immaterial s/s/c. The complexity of thought is controlled by the existing complexity of the brain. Implementation is a different process in which the original thought is put to use by the brain which responds with plasticity, adjusting its functions in its new size, driven by the s/s/c desires. This occurred at all levels of brain evolution, even ours.

Sentence by sentence: Yes, a new idea is a new idea. As such it cannot be a preconceived idea, but according to you as a dualist, it comes from the s/s/c, not the brain. Yes, the dualist’s living human self is a mixture of interacting material (brain) and immaterial (soul). Complex thought is thought, but according to you thought is NOT controlled by the brain, it is the product of the soul; the brain provides information and adjusts itself in order to implement the thought, i.e. to fulfil the desires of the s/s/c. The adjustment in pre-sapiens, when the concept is too complex for the existing capacity, is not to "its functions in its new size", but to its size, while in sapiens the adjustment is new complexifications. The new size and the new complexifications do not precede the implementation. None of this explains your contradictory belief that the SOUL is responsible for new ideas, but pre-sapiens’ SOUL could not have had new ideas until his/her BRAIN had ALREADY expanded.

dhw: Immediate pre-sapiens has new concept that demands implementation. Pre-sapiens brain implements new concept by expanding to sapiens size.
DAVID: Here again you present your theory that a new idea forces (pushes) the brain to a new size. And all I see is the logic that if pre-homo had an idea he would implement that idea with the brain he had. The artifacts show this at each stage. I don't understand your logic.

Once more, the logic is as follows (some of this may sound familiar to you): homimim has an immaterial idea for spears. NO BRAIN CHANGE. As he learns to knapp flint, attach the stone to a wooden rod, throw it with accuracy etc., his brain enlarges with all the muscle movement and coordination involved, so that by the time he is able to perform all these new actions, his brain has expanded to its new size. All these activities CAUSE the expansion. It’s exactly the same process as when illiterate women learn to read and write, the new actions CAUSE new complexifications. That is the logical sequence in both scenarios.

dhw: And for the third time, this has nothing to do with the question of how your dualist soul can be responsible for ideas and yet not have the ideas until the brain has expanded.

DAVID: Note the comment above. The s/s/c doesn't come onboard carrying new concepts. They develop within the new-sized more complex brain.

Once more: For you the dualist, an individual “soul” thinks of a new concept. By definition a new concept is not already “onboard”, no matter what size brain the individual already has. The brain expands in order to implement the concept, as described above.

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