dhw: big brain evolution:comparing chimp and brain organoids (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 08:38 (2054 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: My issue with God and whales is simple: He created sharks and other fish by simple evolution. Evolving land animals to develop seagoing mammals shows His power of creation, But I still have no idea why He bothered with that route. And my doubts don't damage my logic.

dhw: So now apparently you are puzzled that your God chose a roundabout route to create whales, whereas you are not puzzled that your God chose a roundabout route to create the brain of H. sapiens. I don't see why land to sea is any more complex than sea to land, and I don't know how you can call any aspect of evolution "simple" when apparently even a food trap (not to mention the weaverbird's nest) requires your God to give special courses to antlions.

DAVID: You missed the entire point. Whale changes requires extraordinary physiological changes, a point I've constantly made. Evolving humans was simply part of evolving everything. You continue to be the direct creationist in this discussion.

What does “simply part of evolving everything mean”? You have spent years describing the extraordinary physiological changes required to evolve H. sapiens, and insisting that every innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder is the direct result of God’s preprogramming or dabbling. All that is left of evolution is common descent, which means your God programmed or dabbled all changes to take place in existing organisms. Both processes are forms of direct creationism, as opposed to organisms doing their own designing. You keep admitting you “have no idea why God chose to evolve humans over time”, but then you tell us it’s logical!

dhw: I simply question the logic of your version of God specially designing billions of life forms, econiches, lifestyles and natural wonders so that they could eat or not eat one other until he specially designed the only thing he wanted to design.

DAVID: Total misdirection. God wanted to evolve the whole bush of life to reach His goal of humans, a vastly different version of your distortion.

So he wanted to preprogramme/dabble whale flippers, cuttlefish camouflage, monarch migration etc. in order to reach his goal of preprogramming/dabbling the brain of H. sapiens. How is this logical, and where is the distortion?

dhw: Hence the alternative hypotheses I have offered you, including one in which humans really were the goal: namely, he knew what he wanted, but didn’t know how to achieve it (i.e. an experimental God with limitations).

DAVID: All you are doing is second-guessing God. Accept history as His obvious choice.

dhw: It is not history that I reject, but your insistence that your own reading of God’s mind (he only wants to design the human brain, and so he designs billions of other life forms to keep eating each other until he does what he wants to do) is logical.

DAVID: Your illogical version is answered above. God designed everything He wanted to reach His goal.

You have always accepted the logic of the above version. Please explain why you now find it illogical.