Big brain evolution: our mutation rate is slowing (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, January 30, 2019, 17:44 (2122 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The only way God could get to humans if He wished to evolve them was to design all predecessors first! That is totally logical.

dhw: So your God, who according to you is always in control, said to himself: “I only want to specially design humans, but I want to specially design them by spending 3.5+ billion years specially designing millions of other life forms, lifestyles and natural wonders to eat one another and then in most cases to go extinct. Then I can say that instead of my specially designing humans (although according to one of my faithful, I did actually specially design their brains and their pelvises), they have evolved from trilobites, dinosaurs, whales, cuttlefish monarch butterflies and all my other special designs.”

I don't think God did all the inventive human thinking you imply about His thought processes. I repeat: I accept the history and believe God made that choice of operation.

DAVID: […] I have no way of knowing why God chose to evolve. But I and you should accept the history, without saying God is illogical, which is what you always do by telling me I am illogical.

dhw: You have no way of knowing why your God should have inflicted the above procedure on himself, but you insist that the above were his thoughts.

Why inflicted? God can do it anyway He wants. Don't apply thoughts to me that don't exist! Your suppositions about God are all human thought. "God did it the hard way" is your thinking, again totally a human interpretation. He did it all stepwise. Start a universe and evolve its form. Create and evolve the Earth perfect for life. Create life and the evolve humans. All an evolutionary pattern as science shows us. No direct perfect finish line at the start of each stage.

dhw: Yes, you and I should accept historical facts (which are confined to the bush of life and humans being the last species we know of). However, if for argument’s sake I accept the premise that God exists, I am challenging your next non-historical premise, which is that his sole purpose was to design humans but he chose first to spend 3.5+ billion years designing millions of other life forms etc., as above. You don’t know why, but you insist that your interpretation of goal and method is correct. I’m not attacking your God’s logic, which none of us can know, but YOUR logic!

There is no logic involved if I accept what history shows us what was God's choice. I start by recognizing God as the doer of evolution. It all follows that logically.

dhw: And I have suggested several alternative interpretations of your God’s logic which you have agreed are all logical, unlike your own. One of these is that since evolution reveals a constantly changing spectacle of life forms, maybe your God’s purpose was to create a constantly changing spectacle of life forms. Hence the next exchange:

Your suppositions humanize God. I've agreed, that if He thinks in a human way they are logical.

DAVID: I'm sure He watches everything He created, like an artist enjoying his own paintings.

dhw: Thank you for the image. It is you who are now using the word “enjoy”. Since you are sure, perhaps you will stop ridiculing the idea that the history of evolution is that of a spectacle in itself, as opposed to serving no purpose other than to provide 3.5+ billion years of food until your God could specially design the only thing he wanted to design.

DAVID: [..] You keep saying He wanted to do it as a spectacle. That term and human desire is my objection to your thinking about God. He views it as fulfilling His purpose.

dhw: Then let’s drop the word “spectacle”. You are sure that he watches everything he created, like an artist enjoying his own paintings. So it can hardly be beyond the bounds of possibility that what he created actually fulfilled his purpose of creating something he wanted to enjoy.

I'm reasonably sure He is watching us with interest since we have free will He gave to us.