Big brain evolution: our mutation rate is slowing (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Tuesday, January 29, 2019, 18:14 (631 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: It is not a fact that God even exists, but for the sake of argument I have accepted your basic premise that he does and that he created life and the mechanisms for evolution. So of course evolution is his choice of method, but again and again I ask BBB“method to do what?” and your answer is that 1) he is in full control, 2) he specially designed millions of life forms, lifestyles and natural wonders over 3.5+ billion years, and 3) this was his method of designing 4) the only thing he wanted to design, which was H. sapiens. It is the combination of these four fixed beliefs that is illogical.

DAVID: None of them is illogical if they are based on my initial premise that God's initial purpose was to create humans. Your (4) is unrealistic.

dhw: My 4) is your initial premise. And if 4) is true, then 2) and 3) are “unrealistic” or in my terms “illogical” if you insist on 1).

The only way God could get to humans if He wished to evolve them was to design all predecessors first! That is totally logical.

DAVID: God knew He had lots of designing to do if He used evolution to create humans. I don't understand the bolded question. To me it is clear God wanted to create humans as an end goal. You don't accept that so we differ and will continue. You obviously don't view God as I do as an agnostic.

dhw: My agnosticism has nothing to do with it. I have given you different theistic alternatives – not beliefs but hypotheses – all of which remove the illogicality which over and over again you have recognized (you yourself don’t understand why your always-in-control God “chose” to spend 3.5+ billion years designing anything but the one thing he wanted to design). But you then try to gloss over this problem by claiming to know what God wanted and what he knew, and that the illogicality can be ignored because I am an agnostic!

The issue comes back to the same point. I have no way of knowing why God chose to evolve. But I and you should accept the history, without saying God is illogical, which is what you always do by telling me I am illogical..

dhw: Are you saying that he didn’t watch what you believe to have been all his special designs with interest? If you think he might be interested in the “unexpected”, wouldn’t it also be interesting for him to give evolution itself a free rein to see what unexpected forms of life might evolve? Why would he specially design 3.5+ billion years' worth of innovations, lifestyles and natural wonders if they were of no interest to him?

DAVID: Back to your same unanswerable questions. I'm sure He watches everything He created, like an artist enjoying his own paintings.

dhw: Thank you for the image. It is you are now using the word “enjoy”. Since you are sure, perhaps you will stop ridiculing the idea that the history of evolution is that of a spectacle in itself, as opposed to serving no purpose other than to provide 3.5+ billion years of food until your God could specially design the only thing he wanted to design.

DAVID: You still want God equivalent to a human spectator. Of course I have to comment about Him in human equivalents when you raise questions about Him in a human way.

dhw: So you are sure he watches everything he created, like an artist enjoying his own paintings, but despite your certainty I should not suggest that he watches everything he created, like an artist enjoying his own paintings. Curiouser and curiouser.

You keep saying He wanted to do it as a spectacle. That term and human desire is my objection to your thinking about God. He views it as fulfilling His purpose.

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